Zeroinverse FIL 240 tank build

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by zeroinverse, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

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    Water over a drain that has no air in the pipe and is draining is operating as a full siphon, no?

    The challenge is usually keeping enough water above it to keep it under full siphon conditions.

    As for horizontal runs, are you referring to the pipe friction loss that occurs? A vertical bulkhead will drain a bit faster than a horizontal bulkhead because in most tank configurations you have an extra 90 degree elbow that adds friction to the drain this reducing drain rate. Is that what you mean?


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  2. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

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    Hmmm, maybe I'm being a little to literal in my definition of siphon? I consider a siphon as one which uses atmospheric pressure to force water up against gravity, basically "defying gravity", i.e. draining water from your tank with a hose over the side, or putting 2- 90° elbows on the end of your vertical pipe. Simply having water above a straight pipe is not a siphon IMO, it does add pressure due to the weight of the water over the pipe which makes water flow faster yes.

    But semantics aside, looking at your picture you'll have vertical bulkheads inside your overflow chamber, so that's how your bulkheads will be oriented, those slots cut in the overflow are still confusing me but, regardless I would use both of those holes as for overflow pipes, if anything one will serve as a backup if something happens with the first, and if you're worried about draining the water if the power goes out, imagine having a cascade of water going over the edge because your return pump is pushing in a bunch of water that can't drain fast enough.
     
  3. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

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    My opinions:

    >>Q1: should I use one hole for return and one hole for drain?
    >> Q2: should I use both holes for drain and then put return "over-the-top"?
    Suggest using both for drains. One as a valve-tuned siphon, one for the small extra,
    and as emergency overflow.
    Returns over the top is safer anyway. Suggest 4 smaller pipes, two at each end.

    >>Q3: How do you get flow at the far end?
    I always like a gyre, especially for something that long and thin.
    If you have most of your rock centered, so nice view from both sides, it should work well.
    Thus a WP60/Mangnum-8 on front left, and another on back right.
    (That would be a counter-clockwise gyre looking down at tank)
    Return pump with eductors might work, but would take a lot more electricity.

    >> Q4: should we create a fake "wall" display? This would let us have a canopy and prevent light leakage. It also allows me to put plumbing and wires out if retail store customers reach.
    Q5: should we simply build a plastic "top" for the tank? It is a nice eurobraced tank and seems a bit if a shame to not celebrate it.
    Suggest a very low profile canopy. (Easy with LEDs).
    But fully enclosed, to keep customers out.

    A suggestion is to build a box around the existing columns on each end, that matches the tank.
    Hide all plumbing, wires, etc in those.
    So essentially, your stand looks a bit "U" shaped, with the tank inside the U.
     
  4. Scarbird

    Scarbird Supporting Member

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    Ron,
    Thanks for your thread man! I am very interested in "hidden plumbing, wires and stuff". Any ideas on how to increase flow to the tank out of sight is much appreciated! I wish I was in a position to offer advice, but I am a student of life. Keep up the good work. Some day in the future I hope to be recruited as you were to build a slice of heaven in some ones office or home.
    Regards,
    John
     
  5. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

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    Oh, I did not specify... For those that are wondering, there will be a partition wall build all around the tank sides. So the columns will be squared out and covered with marble/tile/laminate. TBD.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1388714188.382022.jpg

    This is the existing stand but I am trying convince FIL to change it to metal stand. Better stand/access opening for sump & auto topography reservoir.

    This will allow tank to hopefully need topoff only every two weeks (maybe longer).

    This assumes 6-10 gallons a week for a 240 gal tank. Gives me a 20-30 gallon freshwater reservoir


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  6. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

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    In case people are interested, here is the 3D rendering of the setup I am planning.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

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    You do draw a pretty picture!
     
  8. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

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    +1
    I was so distracted by the purdy pics I forgot to look at the design! ;)

    What app you using, Zero?
     
  9. Kmooresf

    Kmooresf Supporting Member

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    Very nice. Is there any reason you wouldn't just turn the sump around and keep the pump directly under the return? Would give you less resistance, so the pump isn't working as hard. The drain could go accross to the back chamber. Just a thought. My returns are not directly under either, but if I could have, I would have..........generally the less turns and distance, the better. Just a thought. Looks like a fun build.
     
  10. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

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    Solidworks. 3D parametric modeling tool from my old mechanical engineering days.

    Much better at doing things correctly than Sketchup.


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  11. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

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    My goals was to have a straight drain to reduce chance of any blockages etc. this straight drain mechanism also traps less air in the pipe so siphon of my Herbie drain setup will start and stabilize quicker
    This also will allow me to have "less head" height so I do not need to reserve as much sump for power-off drained water volume since the siphon won't need to be as low.

    Again, straight drain allows the trapped air to exit quicker and start the siphon without as much head water volume.

    I can afford a slight bit of inefficiency in the return pump and associated headloss.


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    Kmooresf likes this.

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