Kessil

DBTC: Walt Disney

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I don’t understand this? Can you elaborate?
Mike, the issue is 3 folds
1- what is dbtc, is it free frags? are we educating users to what it is? Can we do better job at it?
2- there are some abuse cases. What can we do to reduce the abuse. Some ideas can be done in barcode, some on the club threads..we can discuss what are the abuse cases and try to put guardrails to case by case
3- what started this, the op put a concern, he got a feedback from the user that in my opinion made it worst. We as a dbtc community chose not to back the op rather either ignore the op concern or flat out say he is overreacting.

These are the issues I see in this thread if I take away the noise.
 
Last edited:

svreef

BOD
Staff member
The other issue with this specific case is that the people that want the frag can’t seem to take no for an answer and somehow think they should get a frag regardless of what the originator said

Maybe I missed that. Is it because they clicked “get in line”?
 

svreef

BOD
Staff member
I’ve asked several times what the concerns are. I’m not saying there are no concerns. No one is trying to cover up anything or back one person vs the other. That is simply not true. Not true.
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
I still don’t know what the OP or Omar are upset about. Seriously, I’m not being coy or acting dumb, I literally don’t know. I’d like to fix problems if they can be fixed at the system level. The DBTC rules and spirit of the program are pretty clear I think and haven’t changed in many many years. If the issues are poor communication and assuming the worst in others I can’t do much about that. If there is something more concrete, let us know. Or at least when we start meeting in person again I think that will help build social capital again.

BAR can’t do anything I can see about the miscommunication between 2 members in this thread like was cited as a specific problem. Communicate better, and give people the benefit of the doubt if you want to avoid it. BAR can’t force people to behave in more pro-social ways.

Just saying over and over that there is a problem because people are upset for unspecified reasons, but then not saying anything about any problems that the club can fix doesn’t move the ball in the right direction.

And doing this while blaming Board volunteers for not fixing whatever human nature issues are coming up isn’t helpful either. It only gets people more upset for no reason. Saying things are terrible but not saying what the problem is or helping fix it can be a self-fulfilling prophesy and is actually worse than saying nothing.

So unless people are actually trying to ruin BAR, please be more specific and constructive when you feel the need to criticize.
 

Jonathan Chia

Supporting Member
I still don’t know what the OP or Omar are upset about. Seriously, I’m not being coy or acting dumb, I literally don’t know. I’d like to fix problems if they can be fixed at the system level. The DBTC rules and spirit of the program are pretty clear I think and haven’t changed in many many years. If the issues are poor communication and assuming the worst in others I can’t do much about that. If there is something more concrete, let us know. Or at least when we start meeting in person again I think that will help build social capital again.

BAR can’t do anything I can see about the miscommunication between 2 members in this thread like was cited as a specific problem. Communicate better, and give people the benefit of the doubt if you want to avoid it. BAR can’t force people to behave in more pro-social ways.

Just saying over and over that there is a problem because people are upset for unspecified reasons, but then not saying anything about any problems that the club can fix doesn’t move the ball in the right direction.

And doing this while blaming Board volunteers for not fixing whatever human nature issues are coming up isn’t helpful either. It only gets people more upset for no reason. Saying things are terrible but not saying what the problem is or helping fix it can be a self-fulfilling prophesy and is actually worse than saying nothing.

So unless people are actually trying to ruin BAR, please be more specific and constructive when you feel the need to criticize.
The issues have been summarized in a variety of posts above. Claiming to not understand just shows that the posts were skimmed and the meaning wasn lt absorbed
 

Coral reefer

BOD
Staff member
Mike, the issue is 3 folds
1- what is dbtc, is it free frags? are we educating users to what it is? Can we do better job at it?
2- there are some abuse cases. What can we do to reduce the abuse. Some ideas can be done in barcode, some on the club threads..we can discuss what are the abuse cases and try to put guardrails to case by case
3- what started this, the op put a concern, he got a feedback from the user that in my opinion made it worst. We as a dbtc community chose not to back the op rather either ignore the op concern or flat out say he is overreacting.

These are the issues I see in this thread if I take away the noise.
This make more sense and can be addressed much more easily, thank you!
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I still don’t know what the OP or Omar are upset about. Seriously, I’m not being coy or acting dumb, I literally don’t know. I’d like to fix problems if they can be fixed at the system level. The DBTC rules and spirit of the program are pretty clear I think and haven’t changed in many many years. If the issues are poor communication and assuming the worst in others I can’t do much about that. If there is something more concrete, let us know. Or at least when we start meeting in person again I think that will help build social capital again.

BAR can’t do anything I can see about the miscommunication between 2 members in this thread like was cited as a specific problem. Communicate better, and give people the benefit of the doubt if you want to avoid it. BAR can’t force people to behave in more pro-social ways.

Just saying over and over that there is a problem because people are upset for unspecified reasons, but then not saying anything about any problems that the club can fix doesn’t move the ball in the right direction.

And doing this while blaming Board volunteers for not fixing whatever human nature issues are coming up isn’t helpful either. It only gets people more upset for no reason. Saying things are terrible but not saying what the problem is or helping fix it can be a self-fulfilling prophesy and is actually worse than saying nothing.

So unless people are actually trying to ruin BAR, please be more specific and constructive when you feel the need to criticize.
John, see post 182. Trust me this is not my sentiment alone. Just trust me with this.
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
The issues have been summarized in a variety of posts above. Claiming to understand just shows that the posts were skimmed and the meaning wasn lt absorbed
Like 10 posts were written by faster fingers while I was writing my one post, so no I hadn’t read them before clicking “post”. Again, benefit of the doubt goes a long way here.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Just to put things in prospective, no one blaming BOD. Not one single person blamed the BOD.

I will be the first to say the BODs are doing thankless job that many of us did not put foot forward to do. So again, tip of the hat to thw BOD.
Now, being a BOD have some responsibilities. Whether u like it or not thats what you signed up for. I think the simplest responsibility is to at least be understanding to concerns not trivialize it.
You say be specific, i say the concerns were explained multiple times but we keep saying "whats the problem"
Thats it..

Concerns are not complaining about BOD..

We can simply acknowledge the concern and move to a thread were we discuss what can be done..
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
Mike, the issue is 3 folds
1- what is dbtc, is it free frags? are we educating users to what it is? Can we do better job at it?
2- there are some abuse cases. What can we do to reduce the abuse. Some ideas can be done in barcode, some on the club threads..we can discuss what are the abuse cases and try to put guardrails to case by case
3- what started this, the op put a concern, he got a feedback from the user that in my opinion made it worst. We as a dbtc community chose not to back the op rather either ignore the op concern or flat out say he is overreacting.

These are the issues I see in this thread if I take away the noise.
Thank you for spelling out the problems you and others see. I don’t have any good ideas off the top of my head what to do about them though. If any of you have ideas that can be implemented, I suggest you discuss directly with Mike @Coral reefer since he is in charge of the program and has a lot of leeway to improve things as he sees fit. For anything he wants the Board to get more involved in, he can bring it to the rest of us.

BAR in general and DBTC in particular are pretty hands-off since it’s a small nonprofit volunteer social club. But if changes are needed to support the members, that’s what we are here for.
 

svreef

BOD
Staff member
Mike, the issue is 3 folds
1- what is dbtc, is it free frags?

Yes. With rules. They are detailed in sticky threads in the DBTC forum. Free: adverb. Without cost or payment.

are we educating users to what it is?

I don’t know, are we? Who isn’t?

Can we do better job at it?

Always. All of us.

2- there are some abuse cases. What can we do to reduce the abuse. Some ideas can be done in barcode, some on the club threads..we can discuss what are the abuse cases and try to put guardrails to case by case
What are they? I’m not saying there aren’t any but I would like to see them described so we can address them. If people clicking “get in line” is considered abuse, I’d love to fix it.

3- what started this, the op put a concern, he got a feedback from the user that in my opinion made it worst. We as a dbtc community chose not to back the op rather either ignore the op concern or flat out say he is overreacting.
I didn’t see anyone say any of that. I would like to understand the OPs frustration so that hopefully we can help. That was my original request.

I really dislike that something is being construed as ignoring concerns or trying to cover them up. That’s just plain wrong.
 

Coral reefer

BOD
Staff member
Just to put things in prospective, no one blaming BOD. Not one single person blamed the BOD.

I will be the first to say the BODs are doing thankless job that many of us did not put foot forward to do. So again, tip of the hat to thw BOD.
Now, being a BOD have some responsibilities. Whether u like it or not thats what you signed up for. I think the simplest responsibility is to at least be understanding to concerns not trivialize it.
You say be specific, i say the concerns were explained multiple times but we keep saying "whats the problem"
Thats it..

Concerns are not complaining about BOD..

We can simply acknowledge the concern and move to a thread were we discuss what can be done..
I think that’s honestly what we are trying to do. It’s easiest when we can take emotion out of it as much as possible and clearly state and discuss the issues. Thank you for your post earlier that was very clear about the issues you see.
 

Coral reefer

BOD
Staff member
Yeh my advice is lets diacuss this somewhere before we decide nothing can be done. Because I actually think there is room for improvements that can be as simple as backing the mission every now and then and have the message consistent. I think small improvements can go a long way, so long we want to fix things..
In my opinion this thread went lile this because there was inconsistency in the message..
I still don’t understand what mission and message you are talking about tho? The club mission? Dbtc mission? What message?
And as far as “fix”, if there’s a problem we can fix or avoid in the future then yes. But if it’s fox the program then no because it isn’t broken. It can always be improved upon though. We are in a golden age for that right now with arrival of barcode!
 

jhuynh

Supporting Member
let's all end the discussion and move into PM. all points has been said and we can address the problem in PM. anyone is free to PM me and we can discuss the issue further. let's keep the peace and continue on.
 
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