got ethical husbandry?

DeFarts' IM 50gal Lagoon Journey

Also, let's assume it is this species...How would I get UV effectively installed into this type of tank? I believe I could order the IM specific model, but is there another option I could attempt to use?

Something like this


Dino’s are pretty much the worst thing, but some are much easier to deal with than others. There’s a LOT of info and theories out there…first step is to ID them. UV doesn’t work on all kinds, and if yours aren’t entering the water column at night (ostreo) then UV will not work.
 
Dinos are the worst :( I got them a while ago when my nitrates and phosphates bottomed out. Luckily at that point there was no coral yet in the tank. It almost made me want to tear everything down and start over. I just stopped doing water changes, only manual removal and turned off protein skimmer. I was adding NeoPhos, NeoNitro and Microbacter 7 and got my numbers up and months later the problem went away. It was also easy to do a blackout period with no coral. I only had two clowns in there that were fine, my CUC however took somewhat of a hit. I got so much conflicting advice and I never IDd the strain I had so that didn’t help but that’s what worked for me. Best of luck!
 
Daymn. You bottomed your numbers out. Dinos. You need a microscope that will get down to 400x. Then go on Mack’s Dino on fb. Then they will tell you what kind you have. Then you can treat it. Otherwise your going in blind.
The numbers in this tank have always been low. My phosphates have been nearly non-existent from the beginning. Same with nitrates. Rarely getting in the 10-20ppm range.
Something like this

Amazon.com
Sweet! Before I read this response from you, I figured I would at least try to get some UV going, even without an ID yet. I just got back from PetCo and picked up to smaller version of this. Plugging it in shortly.
Dinos are the worst :( I got them a while ago when my nitrates and phosphates bottomed out. Luckily at that point there was no coral yet in the tank. It almost made me want to tear everything down and start over. I just stopped doing water changes, only manual removal and turned off protein skimmer. I was adding NeoPhos, NeoNitro and Microbacter 7 and got my numbers up and months later the problem went away. It was also easy to do a blackout period with no coral. I only had two clowns in there that were fine, my CUC however took somewhat of a hit. I got so much conflicting advice and I never IDd the strain I had so that didn’t help but that’s what worked for me. Best of luck!
Oh damn...yeah, everything seemed like it was doing so well in this tank. So I started adding coral without worry. Everything was looking great and then boom...it just exploded on me. This definitely is a crappy feeling man. Hopefully I can contain this without having to wait months. I need to work on getting a sample to ID.


Curious to know if it's safe to take out, dip, and move frags to another tank that's doing good? Or is that a no-no at this point until this is squared away?
 
The numbers in this tank have always been low. My phosphates have been nearly non-existent from the beginning. Same with nitrates. Rarely getting in the 10-20ppm range.

Sweet! Before I read this response from you, I figured I would at least try to get some UV going, even without an ID yet. I just got back from PetCo and picked up to smaller version of this. Plugging it in shortly.

Oh damn...yeah, everything seemed like it was doing so well in this tank. So I started adding coral without worry. Everything was looking great and then boom...it just exploded on me. This definitely is a crappy feeling man. Hopefully I can contain this without having to wait months. I need to work on getting a sample to ID.


Curious to know if it's safe to take out, dip, and move frags to another tank that's doing good? Or is that a no-no at this point until this is squared away?

So sorry you got this. Dinos are my ‘favorite’ topic. It hit me twice in the first 6 months of nano tank journey. My other tank had a little bit too but it seems more or less resolved now. I always consider Dinos to be the reason that I got so intererested in the whole microbiome discussion early on, and it is still my key area of interest.

The issue with Dinos is that many had it at one point and have advice, but there are apparantly so many different species that you may or may not hit the right treatment, and it is unknown which treatment is the most effective so that multiple different approaches are required.

My advice given your situation is the following:

1. Do not jump into UV already. You might need it later though.

2. Buy a microscope, as recommended earlier, as your no. 1 priority and take a picture for sharing. This was the most painful thing for me since I have not used one since high school, but you need this for identification and progress monitoring. As mentioned above, you need to know which Dinos you have to treat this. The prorocentrums I had could not be fought with UV.

3. Join the Dino group on facebook (Mack's Dino support group). A contentious recommendation, and not a group of professionals, but they provide pragmatic solutions and help identify. And there is a pdf 'manual' how to fix it once identified. Not a scientific manual, just some steps that seem to help, but these helped me twice. Focus is on getting your biome stronger.

4. You need to add carbon ASAP and remove this weekly or more often, as the common issue with the Dinos seems that these are toxic, some very, kills your CUC. The carbon may further reduce your nutrients (which are now low because of your Dinos), but it needs to be added.

5. Do not change your water, as someone also said. This delays the progress by weeks.

6. If you identify your Dinos as prorocentrum, I can provide more advice, but I believe you have another form, and might need UV, but I would go step by step.
 
Ok...got the UV installed. Plan is to keep the lights off until Mon. I'm hopeful that it's in the water column. I just briefly turned the light on to see it...and it's nowhere to be seen on the rocks or corals! So I'm crossing my fingers for best case scenario that the UV will do the trick.

I'll need to do more research about it's life cycle, but from what I'm getting from you guys here is that my nutrients bottomed out and that allowed it to take hold and bloom. Am I understanding that correctly?

If that is in deed the case, I may know what is the reason for this. A couple weeks ago, I went back to work. Long story but I was out for quite some time due to a couple surgeries and recovery. Anyway, I went from feeding phyto almost daily and feeding the corals a few times a week to almost no phyto and barely feeding the corals at all. The nutrients were already low for quite some time, which is why I was trying to feed reef roids, but it wasn't enough I suppose to make a difference.
 
So sorry you got this. Dinos are my ‘favorite’ topic. It hit me twice in the first 6 months of nano tank journey. My other tank had a little bit too but it seems more or less resolved now. I always consider Dinos to be the reason that I got so intererested in the whole microbiome discussion early on, and it is still my key area of interest.

The issue with Dinos is that many had it at one point and have advice, but there are apparantly so many different species that you may or may not hit the right treatment, and it is unknown which treatment is the most effective so that multiple different approaches are required.

My advice given your situation is the following:

1. Do not jump into UV already. You might need it later though.

2. Buy a microscope, as recommended earlier, as your no. 1 priority and take a picture for sharing. This was the most painful thing for me since I have not used one since high school, but you need this for identification and progress monitoring. As mentioned above, you need to know which Dinos you have to treat this. The prorocentrums I had could not be fought with UV.

3. Join the Dino group on facebook (Mack's Dino support group). A contentious recommendation, and not a group of professionals, but they provide pragmatic solutions and help identify. And there is a pdf 'manual' how to fix it once identified. Not a scientific manual, just some steps that seem to help, but these helped me twice. Focus is on getting your biome stronger.

4. You need to add carbon ASAP and remove this weekly or more often, as the common issue with the Dinos seems that these are toxic, some very, kills your CUC. The carbon may further reduce your nutrients (which are now low because of your Dinos), but it needs to be added.

5. Do not change your water, as someone also said. This delays the progress by weeks.

6. If you identify your Dinos as prorocentrum, I can provide more advice, but I believe you have another form, and might need UV, but I would go step by step.
Thanks so much for all the advice Alexander! Much appreciated. I already got the UV going before reading your comment. I'm going to keep it going and leave the light off for now. I figure it can't hurt to at least see if that will help.

Microscope...I'll need to see if I can find the one I already have. It's not a great one, but it should work for at least getting a picture for an ID.
 
Ah we can pow wow about this tomorrow. Better take notes. Lots to learn cuz school is in. Reefing ain’t easy. All newbies thinks it is at the beginning. It’s very deceiving. Lots of chemistry.
 
Ah we can pow wow about this tomorrow. Better take notes. Lots to learn cuz school is in. Reefing ain’t easy. All newbies thinks it is at the beginning. It’s very deceiving. Lots of chemistry.
Thanks again for taking the time to help walk me through understanding this better. It was good to absorb the wisdom and leave feeling less discouraged. Much appreciated!
 
What a whirlwind of a day yesterday! The frag swap was a lot of fun and it was cool to see familiar faces and meet some new ones. It's going to take me a lot of time to remember names though. Sorry, but it's a difficult mental block that I struggle with. So if I have to ask multiple times, please be patient.

Got a fun haul of frags at the swap, but that left me with some difficult choices to make regarding which ones are going into which tanks. I know it's not ideal, but some of the frags I brought home had to go into this tank. I'm being optimistic about my battle plan so hopefully the frags survive and eventually thrive!

Some of the casualties from the past week...
Acanthastrea echinata
20240303_192958.jpg
Multiple sps frags...ignore the bubble algae. It's part of the charm
20240303_193200.jpg


Beautiful blastos...
20240303_193248.jpg
Monti
20240303_193338.jpg


This was the tank last night after we got back from the swap. Turned the lights on to check things out. No slime and no bubbles amywhere. Yesterday was day #2 without any lights and 24hrs with the UV.
20240303_192943.jpg


One of my blastos slowly recovering it seems. It looked worse a few days. I was constantly blowing all the slime off the corals which I believe I inadvertently caused more damage to their skin by blasting them too hard. I think I may have killed some by doing that.
20240303_193237.jpg

Surprised to see this Acro still doing ok! The birdnest frags had RTN within a day or two of having the slime on them. This one just took it in stride.
20240303_193310.jpg


The purple Stylo from @under_water_ninja was MUCH happier yesterday! Polyps extended! Everyday it was smothered in the slime and I was blowing it off at least 2-3x per day. I thought for sure I was going to end up killing this thing.
20240303_193323.jpg


Any chance someone thinks it would be ok to take the anemones out of here and put them into a different tank? Does the dinos transfer like that? I know they can't be dipped, but I'd really like to get those bulky boxes out of there.

Anyway, just a "quick" update on this saga...
Thanks again everyone for the wisdom. Blessings!
 
Any chance someone thinks it would be ok to take the anemones out of here and put them into a different tank? Does the dinos transfer like that? I know they can't be dipped, but I'd really like to get those bulky boxes out of there.

Ugh, these pictures are giving me flashbacks from my dino episode - your tank looks so similar.

I wouldn't think of dinos as a "disease" that can move around from tank to tank. They are already present everywhere. Some largely unknown factor suddenly causes an imbalance by which the Dinos outcompete and overwhelm everything and multiply to apocalyptic proportions. This is seemingly very common in tanks started with mostly dry rock (I know you had some live rock too, yes?). Many believe it is also associated with bottoming out of nutrients, though I often wonder if that's sometimes more of a symptom than a cause.

You got that microscope yet? When are you planning to turn the lights back on?
 
Every ones gotta take their lumps. There’s no way around it. I don’t care what anyone tells you. It’s just how the game is.
Indeed. It's discouraging, but stuff like this challenges me as a keeper. Shows that my husbandry and understanding was/is lacking. So more learning and diligence moving forward!

Ugh, these pictures are giving me flashbacks from my dino episode - your tank looks so similar.

I wouldn't think of dinos as a "disease" that can move around from tank to tank. They are already present everywhere. Some largely unknown factor suddenly causes an imbalance by which the Dinos outcompete and overwhelm everything and multiply to apocalyptic proportions.

Thats is indeed what happened. I noticed it and before I could even figure out what the hell was happening, I was panicking! It got out of control within days. I can understand how some folks would take the approach of a complete tank breakdown with the frustration of dealing with it. My frustration thus far, is only about a week and a half of it being really bad. Now, the balancing act of keeping it at bay. Understanding also, that is just there...waiting and lurking to happen again! That's not encouraging honestly. Anxious about it but trying to mentally keep that at bay too. Haaa haaa

This is seemingly very common in tanks started with mostly dry rock (I know you had some live rock too, yes?).
Yup! I would say at least 50% of it was live rock.

Many believe it is also associated with bottoming out of nutrients, though I often wonder if that's sometimes more of a symptom than a cause.
From my ignorant understanding of it thus far, I believe that is what happened in my case. What I don't get is old school posts about striving for super low nutrient systems and then now it's about dosing nitrates and phosphates is it's not high enough. So who know what actually caused it! LOL

Anecdotal maybe, but when I went back to work, the feeding did abruptly stop. At least the frequency and quantity was greatly reduced and my tank was already running low nitrates and phosphates.

You got that microscope yet? When are you planning to turn the lights back on?
Yes! Found my cheapo microscope. Got it recharged and was planning on getting a sample tonight. I literally have zero signs of the bubbles or slime anywhere though. I just got home from work and turned the lights on to see if they respond over the next few hours. Plus to give the corals some energy.
 
Andy did you add any mature live rock from other tanks (successful ones)? I remember you had a bunch of stuff from a breakdown that sat in cold water for a week or so. Maybe you didn't get enough of the beneficial invertebrates and certain bacterial strains that need to be kept at >75F.
 
Andy did you add any mature live rock from other tanks (successful ones)? I remember you had a bunch of stuff from a breakdown that sat in cold water for a week or so. Maybe you didn't get enough of the beneficial invertebrates and certain bacterial strains that need to be kept at >75F.
Im not sure how much of it went into his tank but I believe he added the rock I gave him we got from Salty Bottom Reef Co buy. It was kept in a stock tank with flow and heat as I had other live stock in there. He did transport it submerged so die off should have been minimal.
 
Chemiclean also greatly aggravated my Dino outbreak, which ultimately lasted for many months and eventually defeated me. I will never touch that stuff again, I am absolutely terrified of a repeat!

I know a lot of people have success with Chemiclean but I think it can be just too disruptive in young tanks.
 
I put in quite a few pieces from Marcos. Maybe when I started building the structures, it was out of the water for too long?! I don't know...

I was able to find a small piece of slime stuck to a piece of algae. I managed to get some pics but I couldn't get a high enough magnification. I'll have to consider purchasing at least a student grade microscope I guess. As you can see, this strand had a high concentration of whatever that is.

1000008389.png
 
Chemiclean also greatly aggravated my Dino outbreak, which ultimately lasted for many months and eventually defeated me. I will never touch that stuff again, I am absolutely terrified of a repeat!

I know a lot of people have success with Chemiclean but I think it can be just too disruptive in young tanks.
I was too hasty to thinking it was red cyano and everything I read mentioned that stuff is safe and effective treatment of it. Unfortunately, you are right. Within a couple days it got worse. So I dosed again! Got even worse and then dosed again!

So I have a conundrum. I dosed ChemiClean on Saturday for the third time, still thinking it was cyano, before you guys came in with the dino knowledge. I went out and got a UV not knowing the species. I figured it couldn't hurt. I've also had the light off since. Tomorrow, I plan on turning the light on to see how it goes.
 
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