Cali Kid Corals

How does fish feeding translate into nutrients? N and P specifically!

enlighten

enlighten

Supporting Member
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I do know some foods have the benefits of introducing trace elements into the tank, but I am wondering what you may do to keep your nutrient imports (N and P) as consistent as possible on a daily/weekly basis.

Do you use an auto feeder?

Do you use pre-portioned foods like frozen cubes?

Are you taking nutritional analysis and converting the weight into PPM to calculate the exact amount added per feed?

Or do you just eye-ball it and feed more when readings are low, feed more when readings are less?

I mostly feed TDO 2x/day and continue to bottom out my nutrients. So I bought frozen but am afraid of excess DOC and bacteria infections from overfeeding my nano. So I feed that about 1-2x a week and broadcast. I do have benepets to feed corals but have not done it consistently. Lastly, I started dosing ammonia bicarbonate to assist with nitrates. Currently between 5-10ppm nitrate, but now phosphates are being irregular and dropped to 0.02 from 0.07-0.09. I am not chasing a specific number, just want more consistency with my daily feedings to raise healthy fish and keep my corals happy as well. My target range is 5-10ppm nitrate and 0.04-.0.08 phos with some leeway upwards. I have neophos on hand as well in case it drops below that, as dinos seem to be a reoccurring issue in my system. Cyano is also having its way atm.

Since the tank is still new, 4 months, but everything was transferred from a 1.5year reef, I assume a lot of this is growing pains until it hits maturity.

Any insight is well appreciated. Thank you!
 
enlighten said:
I do know some foods have the benefits of introducing trace elements into the tank, but I am wondering what you may do to keep your nutrient imports (N and P) as consistent as possible on a daily/weekly basis.

Do you use an auto feeder? Yes

Do you use pre-portioned foods like frozen cubes? Yes, and I just break some off a frozen block

Are you taking nutritional analysis and converting the weight into PPM to calculate the exact amount added per feed? No, nerd! Tell us more. How do you account for metabolism of fish and coral etc.?

Or do you just eye-ball it and feed more when readings are low, feed more when readings are less? Who tests N and P more than once a month? People without kids, that's who.

I mostly feed TDO 2x/day and continue to bottom out my nutrients. So I bought frozen but am afraid of excess DOC and bacteria infections from overfeeding my nano. So I feed that about 1-2x a week and broadcast. I do have benepets to feed corals but have not done it consistently. Lastly, I started dosing ammonia bicarbonate to assist with nitrates. Currently between 5-10ppm nitrate, but now phosphates are being irregular and dropped to 0.02 from 0.07-0.09. I am not chasing a specific number, just want more consistency with my daily feedings to raise healthy fish and keep my corals happy as well. My target range is 5-10ppm nitrate and 0.04-.0.08 phos with some leeway upwards. I have neophos on hand as well in case it drops below that, as dinos seem to be a reoccurring issue in my system. Cyano is also having its way atm.

Since the tank is still new, 4 months, but everything was transferred from a 1.5year reef, I assume a lot of this is growing pains until it hits maturity.

Any insight is well appreciated. Thank you!
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2x a day can be 4x a day, feed more often is my take away. I have gotten phosphates up to .8-.9 with no real isues, and nitrates over 90 but don't do that. I like to keep phosphates around .3 and nitrates around 30. I have a post on my old 168 journal that goes into what I fed then. Keep asking more questions.
 
Came across this after Bar members mentioned the company Oceamo last week !
Icp testing related to some of your questions. I do think they should have done a comparison with added livestock/ since I believe the results may be different based on consumption..The article was written in German but I clicked on the British flag at the top for translation maybe @Alexander1312 can clarify if there are any mistranslation errors and also locate part 2 of the Article thanks..
I use 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoons for each dry, dehydrated or freeze dried food I add to a small container then dump in tank. Spoon size depends on if full feeding or just in between snacks when my fish are giving me the puppy eyes begging look, trying to splash me or if company is over.. I alternate about 3 days a week with various frozen foods and nori plus occasional live worms..If I was testing for added p from food would probably weigh everything but its never been a concern plus all foods gone within a few minutes then processed into fertilizer for corals and beneficial bacteria or skimmed out..

 
PjFish said:
Came across this after Bar members mentioned the company Oceamo last week !
Icp testing related to some of your questions. I do think they should have done a comparison with added livestock/ since I believe the results may be different based on consumption..The article was written in German but I clicked on the British flag at the top for translation maybe @Alexander1312 can clarify if there are any mistranslation errors and also locate part 2 of the Article thanks..
I use 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoons for each dry, dehydrated or freeze dried food I add to a small container then dump in tank. Spoon size depends on if full feeding or just in between snacks when my fish are giving me the puppy eyes begging look, trying to splash me or if company is over.. I alternate about 3 days a week with various frozen foods and nori plus occasional live worms..If I was testing for added p from food would probably weigh everything but its never been a concern plus all foods gone within a few minutes then processed into fertilizer for corals and beneficial bacteria or skimmed out..

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I remember reading that post last year and made some changes afterwards. I've noticed that switching from pellets to freeze dried whole food helped make a huge difference on my phosphate accumulation. Feeding 7x a day with freeze dried vs. 2x pellets led me to have lower levels. Of course you can only do that with a feeder like the Plank. Haven't needed any phosphate remover despite also dropping my change schedule to monthly from weekly.

I wasn't having uneaten food accumulate with the pellets either since the crabs and shrimp wiped out whatever the fish didn't get to.

Granted not all pellets are created equal. If someone in the club wanted to measure different pellet foods, I'm sure the BOD could approve some funds to do so.
 
Feed everything with every feeding
No single feed has all needed nutrients, but “everything” does!
A fish’s stomach is ABOUT the size of 1 of its eyeballs
“Appetizers” 4-8 times each day
Aside from frozen feeds, my tanks get pellets, flakes, nori (of different kinds), steamed broccoli
A hungry fish is an angry and weakened fish
Ample food in, water changes
Old fish…
 

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Honestly I never worry regarding the amount of food I do feed..Just if I want a new cool fish someones gota go but that hasn’t happened in a while..Although I do have five Neoglyphidodon crossi I got as babies that were mislabeled that I want to switch out for more working class fish then freeloaders!
 
I do believe we seriously overfeed in the US and I do not share the sentiment that you need to feed 8 times daily. We are an outlier compared to other countries in this regards. I can show you tanks with well fed and great looking (large) fish who are being fed twice a day with high quality food. I am feeding 3 to 4 times a day at the moment, and on weekends only twice.
 
PjFish said:
Came across this after Bar members mentioned the company Oceamo last week !
Icp testing related to some of your questions. I do think they should have done a comparison with added livestock/ since I believe the results may be different based on consumption..The article was written in German but I clicked on the British flag at the top for translation maybe @Alexander1312 can clarify if there are any mistranslation errors and also locate part 2 of the Article thanks..
I use 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoons for each dry, dehydrated or freeze dried food I add to a small container then dump in tank. Spoon size depends on if full feeding or just in between snacks when my fish are giving me the puppy eyes begging look, trying to splash me or if company is over.. I alternate about 3 days a week with various frozen foods and nori plus occasional live worms..If I was testing for added p from food would probably weigh everything but its never been a concern plus all foods gone within a few minutes then processed into fertilizer for corals and beneficial bacteria or skimmed out..

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Semi translated into English, haha. The conclusion is that flakes are not great, and I would say Artemia aka Brine shrimps neither. Brine shrimp being grown in China next to fish farms are particularly concerning so I do not feed brine shrimps. And should probably stop feeding flakes, which I only add to a dry food mix for flavor:).
 
Alexander1312 said:
Semi translated into English, haha. The conclusion is that flakes are not great, and I would say Artemia aka Brine shrimps neither. Brine shrimp being grown in China next to fish farms are particularly concerning so I do not feed brine shrimps. And should probably stop feeding flakes, which I only add to a dry food mix for flavor:).
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Im going to try some avast freeze dried mix and if i get lucky ill be able to source dki pellets this weekend at aquashella. I also am consider dr bassleer acai pellets.
 
Hi - and welcome -
For myself I use the avast plank & use a combo of pellets -tdo, Pisces mysis pellets, and nyos algae -one of them is a phosphate bomb for sure! I feed that once a day.

I also DIY’ed -making a mini fridge into dosing refrigerated liquids - so I dose reef nutrition’s artic pods, ROE daily and oyster feast 2x a week.

All above on a timer and the same amounts.
I have always had higher PO4 than I’d like -but I have changed the feeding habits -and then adjusted the dosing to contend with the PO4. I recently was dosing diluted lanthanum but have stopped that.

Right now it’s .41 as of today and I am curious to what it will rest at -but I will intervene at .5.

What I wil say is don’t mix the freeze dried with pellets in the avast-can’t speak to other feeders -but it just all kinda clumps together. Do one or the other. I just chose pellets so I could cater to various nutrition needs.
 
enlighten said:
Im going to try some avast freeze dried mix and if i get lucky ill be able to source dki pellets this weekend at aquashella. I also am consider dr bassleer acai pellets.
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Why DKI pellets? Any particular ones? I still have quite a few if you come to the swap.

Do not add nitrate or phosphate supplements. Slowly increase feeding pellets if phosphate are too low or good quality frozen food (LRS, rods, PE mysis) if you are looking to increase nitrates.

For pellet food, I mix TDO of different sizes and Fauna Marin soft multipellets - I consider both the best pellet food available for purchase at the moment.
 
Alexander1312 said:
I do believe we seriously overfeed in the US and I do not share the sentiment that you need to feed 8 times daily. We are an outlier compared to other countries in this regards. I can show you tanks with well fed and great looking (large) fish who are being fed twice a day with high quality food. I am feeding 3 to 4 times a day at the moment, and on weekends only twice.
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How do you suggest keeping nutrients above 0 then? Adding ammonia, urea, phosphate separately? What makes that better than adding more food?

Since fish in the ocean naturally graze, I think it’s better to feed continuously rather than in large, isolated feedings.

I think multiple, small feedings makes the most sense, especially concentrated towards the evening to mimic zooplankton coming up the water column with the diurnal vertical mass migration
 
Might be hard to use the freeze dried foods @enlighten without the plank. The real innovation on it is the pump chamber which mixes and rehydrates the food so it doesn't just float away.

@Alexander1312 dki pellets are what Biota raise their fish on. I had to start mine on them initially.
 
Darkxerox said:
Might be hard to use the freeze dried foods @enlighten without the plank. The real innovation on it is the pump chamber which mixes and rehydrates the food so it doesn't just float away.

@Alexander1312 dki pellets are what Biota raise their fish on. I had to start mine on them initially.
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I thought they used tdo pellets? I mean they probably use different foods as well I would imagine.

Giving my fish tdo pellets makes them all go nuts like shaking the bag of cat treats lol. They swim much faster to grab them and some of the wrasses, and my larger maroons do top water explosions like bass. Funny to watch.

Do you think dki pellets are also a good option for varried feeding (like different enough from tdo to make a meaningful difference)?
 
tribbitt said:
How do you suggest keeping nutrients above 0 then? Adding ammonia, urea, phosphate separately? What makes that better than adding more food?

Since fish in the ocean naturally graze, I think it’s better to feed continuously rather than in large, isolated feedings.

I think multiple, small feedings makes the most sense, especially concentrated towards the evening to mimic zooplankton coming up the water column with the diurnal vertical mass migration
Click to expand...
If you are in the rare situation where your nutrient export is higher than your import - then feeding is the better choice, agreed. This is not common and folks mostly have not that ‘problem’ in standard (large) reef tank setup where multiple large fish are housed even with heavy coral livestock - more a smaller or frag tank issue.

However, you can easily get nutrients up a different way by feeding phosphate heavy coral food (nitrate matters less in my opinion) such as clams etc in a cheap homemade mix.

While the regular grazing argument keeps coming up, I have yet to see fish in the ocean who regularly graze on high density fish food such TDO or other types of highly concentrated pellets. I do agree though that some types of fish might require more regular feedings to survive which needs to be considered when purchasing them, and this is often mainly because we cannot offer the food they would actually need.

I still do not believe the continously communicated ‘best practice’ recommendation to feed up to 8 times daily is a much adopted practice outside our country (same as the assumption that highly polluted water with nitrate and phosphate above 20 or 0.2 is ‘normal’).
 
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