Ich: Finding My Truth (amidst the gazillion philosophies, schools of thought and approaches)

[BAYMAC]

Ok, I think I will end up doing my own research. I just don't want to kill fishes in the process. But if this would save lots of life then I will do it sooner or later. There are some good natural medications in Indian natural medicine("Ayurveda"), I will contact some people in India and see if we can do some research, I will also meet some people when I go to India next time. This is very old science and it can cure most of the diseases by only useing natural stuff. So hopefully I might find some things that can help speed up QT process.

That is exactly the thinking that has made treating Ich such a mess. Alternative medicine like Ayurveda (which is not science) is not medicine and just because people have been using it a long time doesn't mean it actually works. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a very powerful fallacy. The article that I posted a link to earlier goes into this in some depth.

I know people really want to believe this stuff, but there is no credible evidence that it works.

Haha, you need to get your knowdge up to date. It is science and proven over and over again. But western countries don't want to accept it. Go to India and check.

its called the World Wide Web for a reason:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Ayurveda&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2005/629537.pdf

 

[rygh]

Ok, I think I will end up doing my own research. I just don't want to kill fishes in the process. But if this would save lots of life then I will do it sooner or later. There are some good natural medications in Indian natural medicine("Ayurveda"), I will contact some people in India and see if we can do some research, I will also meet some people when I go to India next time. This is very old science and it can cure most of the diseases by only useing natural stuff. So hopefully I might find some things that can help speed up QT process.

That is exactly the thinking that has made treating Ich such a mess. Alternative medicine like Ayurveda (which is not science) is not medicine and just because people have been using it a long time doesn't mean it actually works. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a very powerful fallacy. The article that I posted a link to earlier goes into this in some depth.

I know people really want to believe this stuff, but there is no credible evidence that it works.

Ahh, but Rasa shastra, which I think is conceptually part of Ayurveda might in fact cure ich.
One part of that can include adding copper.

(Just having fun, not meant to offend various beliefs)

 

[ReefLove]

Ok, I think I will end up doing my own research. I just don't want to kill fishes in the process. But if this would save lots of life then I will do it sooner or later. There are some good natural medications in Indian natural medicine("Ayurveda"), I will contact some people in India and see if we can do some research, I will also meet some people when I go to India next time. This is very old science and it can cure most of the diseases by only useing natural stuff. So hopefully I might find some things that can help speed up QT process.

That is exactly the thinking that has made treating Ich such a mess. Alternative medicine like Ayurveda (which is not science) is not medicine and just because people have been using it a long time doesn't mean it actually works. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a very powerful fallacy. The article that I posted a link to earlier goes into this in some depth.

I know people really want to believe this stuff, but there is no credible evidence that it works.

Haha, you need to get your knowdge up to date. It is science and proven over and over again. But western countries don't want to accept it. Go to India and check.

its called the World Wide Web for a reason:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Ayurveda&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2005/629537.pdf

Now, let me add by saying that, by calling it an "alternative medicine" doesn't make it alternative to something, western countries have always been ignorant of these things and always said their stuff is better than others. If you don't know the green tea has been a medicine in Ayurveda for years. Also there are natural approaches that can cure most of the illnesses.

Like "Aswagandha" has been proven again again to promote good health and no side effect and its one of the best stree reliever yet invented, it's a root of a plant. You can find it in GNC try it for 30 days and tell me what you think. It's non addictive, non habitual.

Also, what is yoga ? It spart of Ayurveda, garlic makes blood thin, proven many times over. Clarifies butter is good for brain development and your skin, lime is good source of vitamin C. haldi is good antibiotic. I can go on and on.

 

[ReefLove]

I don't see what your point is, Reeflove. How and what exactly are you trying to "educate" the LFS? Do you think this is a new issue that just got discovered? You are beating on a dead horse that been beaten to death for years. LFS owners are not as stupid as you think....most of the time anyway...lol.

Although I do appreciates your honesty in trying to do the right thing for the animals that are soon to be in your care, you don't need to be so harsh or rude about threatening the LFS with withdrawing their license and whatever repercussions you stated earlier. By making such comment, you made it like store owners should take all the responsibilities while you already know the chain of custody starts all the way from collection, to wholesales, retailers, and then you. You can't surely expect us to take ALL the responsibility, do you? If so, there wouldn't be an LFS for you to go.

You are very ignorant about the cost of maintaining a fish store. And there's nothing wron with that as many hobbyiest do. Shoot, when I took over the shop, I didnt know any better either. What we're selling are not commodities and so therefore the thought process shouldn't be the same. Just because we buy a fish for a dollar and sell it for $10 doesn't means its all profit. Even the best fish store average at least 35% in overhead. Thats before including your normal lost on live stock. Add that to something call profit and you can see how expensive a fish can get. Once you add the cost of procurement, shipping, demand and supply, and lost, and etc. you'll end up in cost that are out of the range of many people already.

Just for the record, I have tried the QT of fish before selling them. I did it for a whole year. At the end of the day, the process proved to be more stressful for the fish due to the volume, and the final cost became too unrealistic so I was forced to abandon that.

Robert, lets just say that I do not trust your business ethics and leave at that. I'm gonna ignore whatever you say, there can not any authenticity in that.

 

[robert4025]

I don't see what your point is, Reeflove. How and what exactly are you trying to "educate" the LFS? Do you think this is a new issue that just got discovered? You are beating on a dead horse that been beaten to death for years. LFS owners are not as stupid as you think....most of the time anyway...lol.

Although I do appreciates your honesty in trying to do the right thing for the animals that are soon to be in your care, you don't need to be so harsh or rude about threatening the LFS with withdrawing their license and whatever repercussions you stated earlier. By making such comment, you made it like store owners should take all the responsibilities while you already know the chain of custody starts all the way from collection, to wholesales, retailers, and then you. You can't surely expect us to take ALL the responsibility, do you? If so, there wouldn't be an LFS for you to go.

You are very ignorant about the cost of maintaining a fish store. And there's nothing wron with that as many hobbyiest do. Shoot, when I took over the shop, I didnt know any better either. What we're selling are not commodities and so therefore the thought process shouldn't be the same. Just because we buy a fish for a dollar and sell it for $10 doesn't means its all profit. Even the best fish store average at least 35% in overhead. Thats before including your normal lost on live stock. Add that to something call profit and you can see how expensive a fish can get. Once you add the cost of procurement, shipping, demand and supply, and lost, and etc. you'll end up in cost that are out of the range of many people already.

Just for the record, I have tried the QT of fish before selling them. I did it for a whole year. At the end of the day, the process proved to be more stressful for the fish due to the volume, and the final cost became too unrealistic so I was forced to abandon that.

Robert, lets just say that I do not trust your business ethics and leave at that. I'm gonna ignore whatever you say, there can not any authenticity in that.

I wasn't trying to gain your trust so I can totally careless about what you think of me.

 

[Thales]

Ok, I think I will end up doing my own research. I just don't want to kill fishes in the process. But if this would save lots of life then I will do it sooner or later. There are some good natural medications in Indian natural medicine("Ayurveda"), I will contact some people in India and see if we can do some research, I will also meet some people when I go to India next time. This is very old science and it can cure most of the diseases by only useing natural stuff. So hopefully I might find some things that can help speed up QT process.

That is exactly the thinking that has made treating Ich such a mess. Alternative medicine like Ayurveda (which is not science) is not medicine and just because people have been using it a long time doesn't mean it actually works. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a very powerful fallacy. The article that I posted a link to earlier goes into this in some depth.

I know people really want to believe this stuff, but there is no credible evidence that it works.

Haha, you need to get your knowdge up to date. It is science and proven over and over again. But western countries don't want to accept it. Go to India and check.

its called the World Wide Web for a reason:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Ayurveda&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2005/629537.pdf

Now, let me add by saying that, by calling it an "alternative medicine" doesn't make it alternative to something, western countries have always been ignorant of these things and always said their stuff is better than others. If you don't know the green tea has been a medicine in Ayurveda for years. Also there are natural approaches that can cure most of the illnesses.

Like "Aswagandha" has been proven again again to promote good health and no side effect and its one of the best stree reliever yet invented, it's a root of a plant. You can find it in GNC try it for 30 days and tell me what you think. It's non addictive, non habitual.

Also, what is yoga ? It spart of Ayurveda, garlic makes blood thin, proven many times over. Clarifies butter is good for brain development and your skin, lime is good source of vitamin C. haldi is good antibiotic. I can go on and on.

I'll call BS on most of that, but I would love more than anything to be wrong.
Since you say it works it is up to you to provide reasonable evidence - please point me to some peer reviewed studies that show that under reasonable experimental conditions that ""Aswagandha" has been shown to promote good health and no side effect and its one of the best stree reliever yet invented". If it really works, then such studies should be very easy to do and very easy to find. Thanks in advance!

 

[bookfish]

And I'd like a link to the study that looked into vitamin C for ich. TIA-Jim

 

[tankguy]

I dont think I'll be adding any eastern medicines to my tank

 

[goldielocke76]

LoL other than good food, clean water, and maybe something for alkalinity, I won't be adding ANY kind of medicine to my tank. It all needs to be done in QT or hospital tank

NIMFT= Not in my fish tank LoL

Let's keep on topic peeps, no room for pointing fingers and name calling here!

Hopefully Reeflove will post some peer reviewed articles so Rich can help keep us skeptical. This has been a very informative thread ^.^

 

[BAYMAC]

Ok, I think I will end up doing my own research. I just don't want to kill fishes in the process. But if this would save lots of life then I will do it sooner or later. There are some good natural medications in Indian natural medicine("Ayurveda"), I will contact some people in India and see if we can do some research, I will also meet some people when I go to India next time. This is very old science and it can cure most of the diseases by only useing natural stuff. So hopefully I might find some things that can help speed up QT process.

That is exactly the thinking that has made treating Ich such a mess. Alternative medicine like Ayurveda (which is not science) is not medicine and just because people have been using it a long time doesn't mean it actually works. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a very powerful fallacy. The article that I posted a link to earlier goes into this in some depth.

I know people really want to believe this stuff, but there is no credible evidence that it works.

Haha, you need to get your knowdge up to date. It is science and proven over and over again. But western countries don't want to accept it. Go to India and check.

its called the World Wide Web for a reason:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Ayurveda&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2005/629537.pdf

Now, let me add by saying that, by calling it an "alternative medicine" doesn't make it alternative to something, western countries have always been ignorant of these things and always said their stuff is better than others. If you don't know the green tea has been a medicine in Ayurveda for years. Also there are natural approaches that can cure most of the illnesses.

Like "Aswagandha" has been proven again again to promote good health and no side effect and its one of the best stree reliever yet invented, it's a root of a plant. You can find it in GNC try it for 30 days and tell me what you think. It's non addictive, non habitual.

Also, what is yoga ? It spart of Ayurveda, garlic makes blood thin, proven many times over. Clarifies butter is good for brain development and your skin, lime is good source of vitamin C. haldi is good antibiotic. I can go on and on.

I think you failed to see the point of my post I gave you a link to peer reviewed papers on the subject, so for, some against. Lots of information. You won't get much further with Rich without backing up what you have to say

The WWW is world wide in fact, no need to go to India to find such information.

 

[Crabby]

FWIW, I wouldn't put any confidence that papers published by Hindawai have gone through a rigorous peer review process. Thus, I am not inclined to search for good science there.

 

[BAYMAC]

FWIW, I wouldn't put any confidence that papers published by Hindawai have gone through a rigorous peer review process. Thus, I am not inclined to search for good science there.

The paper posted wasn't posted for any peer review work, did you look at it? I posted it for the table showing "internet hits"