Kalkwasser and SPS dominated Tanks 150-200g

[derek_SR]

I wanted to laugh at your post just for this statement. I think you are mostly joking... right?

Your opinion is not wrong. Just different than how others feel because they are comfortable with it. Nothing wrong with that either.

Yes, this was meant to be a red herring .

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Ok I went back to watch the video (link @ 2:07 where he talks about this )

He says that for every 50g of tank volume you can add 1/4tsp of calcium hydroxide to your tank once an hour without pH going too high. His claim being, the mixed limewater doesn't have to be a clear solution it can be cloudy and silty. Later he says "if [...] you've got an Apex controller and you build some kind of a robotic device you could theoretically just spoon in that powder"

When he talks about adding it by hand he does say to add it to some water, but if a lot of the powder isn't dissolving idk what that really does

Ok... so this was 8 years ago. I just do not see how adding kalk powder to a sump would be a good idea. Common practice is to only use the liquid as a certain amount will precipitate when mixed at too high of a ratio. Unless you go with the Meckley methodology which @derek_SR prefers, and it has to do with eliminating precipitation all together by only mixing in a certain amount of kalk per liter of water. That exact recipe I cannot find it at the moment, but I am sure Derek has it written down somewhere next to a portrait of Chris. I believe I heard it on the Reef Bum podcast. I have not tried it myself, since I mix mine until I get precipitation anyway. I have a portrait of Alexander next to by kalkwasser dosing container.

 

[Alexander1312]

Winter is coming...

 

[Alexander1312]

I will try a positive spin on this topic this time, despite a risk of being reported to the club bosses for this.

I allow Kalkwasser in the following circumstances:

- You are an experienced reefer and know the pros and cons of this dosing method.
- You have a bare bottom tank and clean your sump regularly.
- You have an established tank and are not trying to setup a new tank or less than 1-2 year old tank with this.
- You do not solely rely on Kalkwasser for Alk (and CA) dosing.
- You have asked one of the Kalkwasser admirers, specifically those relying on Kalkwasser with 95% of their Alk and CA dosing needs, if they ever tried to turn off their Kalkwasser for a few days (by swtiching to to e.g 2 part dosing) and what happended to their tank, PH etc. If they have not tried this before, I would ask why not.

Otherwise, do not use it. There are more reliable and inexpensive ways with fewer downsides to satisfy your Alk and CA demand. Penny pinching through Kalkwasser might make sense with 300g systems, in which case, I assume you are an experienced reefer and qualify for the use of Kalkwasser as per the rules above.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Winter is coming...

View attachment 71679

Haaaa haaaaaa... BUT BUT... that's not supposed to happen when you use kalkwasser?! LMAO

I do believe that kalkwasser dosing does indeed lead to precipitation in the display and binds up traces. An issue I may be experiencing in my 50. The only tank currently on it. The exact amount is not yet known or which traces specifically. But the theory that a sudden shift in a higher pH can dissolve the precipitation But this was the reason for your blasphemous actions of not using it any longer, correct @Alexander1312 ?

 

[Alexander1312]

Haaaa haaaaaa... BUT BUT... that's not supposed to happen when you use kalkwasser?! LMAO

I do believe that kalkwasser dosing does indeed lead to precipitation in the display and binds up traces. An issue I may be experiencing in my 50. The only tank currently on it. The exact amount is not yet known or which traces specifically. But the theory that a sudden shift in a higher pH can dissolve the precipitation But this was the reason for your blasphemous actions of not using it any longer, correct @Alexander1312 ?

Broadly yes. High sudden PH increase, higher precipitation, lower PH releases a ton of precipitated stuff back into the water, potentially overwhelming the system. And the high precipitation may lead to stronger algae growth on surfaces, even if PH does not go down. And sadly, it does take time so no one traces back tank crashes to dosing Kalkwasser.

Kalkwasser is a brute force method, while we keep preaching that nothing goes quick in a reef tank. And why are we using it? To save money. So that we can buy new skimmers and lights twice per year, or a second fancy auto feeder.

Now, this post certainly gets reported .

 

[fishy408]

@Alexander1312, thanks for sharing. It's good to know the possible negative results from using Kalk and something I can keep an eye out in the future.

For myself, Kalk has been great and I haven't experienced any negative effects so far (about a year).

• tank is 40g - bare bottom
• The sump is cleaned every two months or so.

I do see precipitation in the dosing area and the overflow, but haven't seen it inside the tank or the rocks.

 

[Patio]

Julian Sprung says you can just dump dry kalkwasser in your sump, but idk. Sounds a little sketchy

BOLUS'ing kalkwasser. lol interesting.

 

[derek_SR]

I don't really use kalk to save money (and am not really a huge fan of it myself in general) I use it so that I can refill my ATO way less often and refill my 2part jugs way less often - both are tedious chores. I would never in a million years use kalk if I had it in anything smaller than a 40g barrel in the garage. Saving some money on 2part is a nice bonus, although it's kind of a wash if you are using very inexpensive 2part (I am using ESV).

Still, my consumption is going up so rapidly lately I am very soon embarking on the carx journey.

 

[tribbitt]

@Alexander1312 New profile picture really fitting lol

 

[Alexander1312]

I don't really use kalk to save money (and am not really a huge fan of it myself in general) I use it so that I can refill my ATO way less often and refill my 2part jugs way less often - both are tedious chores. I would never in a million years use kalk if I had it in anything smaller than a 40g barrel in the garage. Saving some money on 2part is a nice bonus, although it's kind of a wash if you are using very inexpensive 2part (I am using ESV).

Still, my consumption is going up so rapidly lately I am very soon embarking on the carx journey.

Speaking of tedious chores, setting up and calibrating a CARX. Plus the upfront cost. Curious how this will go for you, since you are not known for your patience , but I this might be a wrong observation of mine.

What is an expensive 2 part solution (vs ESV)? This gave me an idea for another thread.

Some folks with <40g Kalkwasser container might feel offended .

 

[jhuynh]

Speaking of tedious chores, setting up and calibrating a CARX. Plus the upfront cost. Curious how this will go for you, since you are not known for your patience , but I this might be a wrong observation of mine.

What is an expensive 2 part solution (vs ESV)? This gave me an idea for another thread.

Some folks with <40g Kalkwasser container might feel offended .

pretty sure like other sps members here, their tank would consume about 1dkh every 2 hours and carx is the only way to keep up with the demand. my tank would consume like 4dkh every 6 hours. once you get to that level, you will understand.

*upfront cost: yes it is expensive, but it will offset that in the long run. i am running a geo 818 with a secondary 618, carbon doser, and kamoer fx-stp with pure limestone media.

*setting up / calibrating: no difference when you are dosing kalk. you are still testing alk and adjust accordingly. setting up a carx it actually easier than you think.

*biggest pro - you are no longer mixing/slurry kalk. before using carx, i was mixing and going through at least 4gal of kalk daily. it got to a point mixing became a chore. i was only able to dose kalk for about 8 months before i had to jump into a carx. media for carx will last longer and minimal adjustments are needed once you dial it in.

*biggest con: you will have low pH cause of the effluent, that is why i use a secondary reactor to offset that. people do still dose kalk ontop of the carx to get the pH higher. my tank is in the man cave aka garage so i have no issues with low pH.

what i did with demand with my sps dominate bb tank:
less than year - water changes
1 - 1.5 years - water changes + dosing kalk + amino acid dosing
1.5 years+ - no water changes + carx + trace elements + magnesium dosing + amino acid dosing

if you are relying on AFR as your go to, i wish you the best. i do not believe in one product that gives your tank all it needs.

in the end, carx with trace element dosing is the end game in this hobby. if you are at the level which @derek_SR is at, its the only way. kalk can only go so far and has its limit on how much it can help before demand takes over.

 

[Alexander1312]

pretty sure like other sps members here, their tank would consume about 1dkh every 2 hours and carx is the only way to keep up with the demand. my tank would consume like 4dkh every 6 hours. once you get to that level, you will understand.

*upfront cost: yes it is expensive, but it will offset that in the long run. i am running a geo 818 with a secondary 618, carbon doser, and kamoer fx-stp with pure limestone media.

*setting up / calibrating: no difference when you are dosing kalk. you are still testing alk and adjust accordingly. setting up a carx it actually easier than you think.

*biggest pro - you are no longer mixing/slurry kalk. before using carx, i was mixing and going through at least 4gal of kalk daily. it got to a point mixing became a chore. i was only able to dose kalk for about 8 months before i had to jump into a carx. media for carx will last longer and minimal adjustments are needed once you dial it in.

*biggest con: you will have low pH cause of the effluent, that is why i use a secondary reactor to offset that. people do still dose kalk ontop of the carx to get the pH higher. my tank is in the man cave aka garage so i have no issues with low pH.

what i did with demand with my sps dominate bb tank:
less than year - water changes
1 - 1.5 years - water changes + dosing kalk + amino acid dosing
1.5 years+ - no water changes + carx + trace elements + magnesium dosing + amino acid dosing

if you are relying on AFR as your go to, i wish you the best. i do not believe in one product that gives your tank all it needs.

in the end, carx with trace element dosing is the end game in this hobby. if you are at the level which @derek_SR is at, its the only way. kalk can only go so far and has its limit on how much it can help before demand takes over.

Sounds complicated, but I am not against CARX, in case you misunderstood. Also, I do not believe CARX is the endgame, as coral farms do not always run CARX. And for the record, I am not using either AFR (Tropic Marin) or R2R (same product from Fauna Marin), for several reasons, but these are good products.

 

[RandyC]

Speaking of tedious chores, setting up and calibrating a CARX. Plus the upfront cost. Curious how this will go for you, since you are not known for your patience , but I this might be a wrong observation of mine.

What is an expensive 2 part solution (vs ESV)? This gave me an idea for another thread.

Some folks with <40g Kalkwasser container might feel offended .

I think you need to set up a calcium reactor before you keep complaining that it's too complicated and hard to maintain. Apologies to be blunt, but you keep pushing this idea that it is hard, but you actually haven't done it to know from experience if it's painful or not. Set one up and if you still think it's a tedious chore, I'll respect that. I have four calcium reactors running at the moment and I promise you, my maintenance would be much worse with Kalk or two part if I had that set up in each of my systems.