LED lighting

[Spicolte]

I’ve been battling a high PO4 for a long time in my 180 FWLR. Mushrooms and elephant ears only. Using a refugium and a gfo reactor with no results. Water changes siphoning off green algae gravel with no success. Mushroom corals have shrunk and barely open. I’ve recently used LaCl3 to lower the phosphate and accidentally achieved zero. Success. But…

That stated, I’m amazingly seeing regrowth of green algae on the gravel. Even with zero PO4. And teeny tiny opening of mushrooms.

My thoughts are turning to my LED’s. First generation hydras from AI.

My thoughts in believing this are my other reef tank with similar high PO4 but lit by hydra 52’s. No algae growth and mushrooms fully open.

Is it possible my LEDs are no longer providing the proper kelvin temp and spectrum? I look at my tank and think back to fluorescents and a red shift.

Are my first gen AI Hydras not providing proper lighting anymore? I’ve searched hydras in this regard but have found no info.

All my other parameters are in proper amounts.

Is appreciate your thoughts and advice.

 

[H2OPlayar]

You need phosphate in the water to grow stuff. Ultra low nutrients is now old school. You need herbivores to keep algae in check

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[Coral reefer]

I’m not sure comparing two systems with different lights and making the conclusion that the lights are causing a difference is so valid. There’s gotta be other differences besides lights and phosphates I would expect.

 

[Darkxerox]

Your hydras are probably still fine, I run a pair of 10+ year old Vegas still over a 90g that still can grow anemones and soft corals like yours. What was your phosphate before you added lanthanum? With just soft corals, you can have pretty ridiculously high phosphate and nitrates with no issue. Having them shrink and not open is likely due to an irritant or something. Might want to try significant water changes (>20%) weekly, activated carbon if you aren't yet, and inspect your pumps and anything that could contain metal for rust or broken magnets. The other thing is confirm your method of measuring salinity is accurate or your source water is clean enough.

Agree with @H2OPlayar that algae is a lack of herbivore problem too, not a good indicator of excess nutrients.

 

[Spicolte]

I’m not sure comparing two systems with different lights and making the conclusion that the lights are causing a difference is so valid. There’s gotta be other differences besides lights and phosphates I would expect.

I agree. But I’m looking for ideas and thoughts on LED lighting since I only have my two tanks as experience.

 

[Turkeysammich]

I don’t think it’s your lights. Usually when you bottom out your numbers. Dinos or cyano will be next. That’s one problem.
The other problem is shrunken mushrooms. I would say. Look at something nipping them like fish or toxins. I’m going to assume that you have a ro/di and the reef is mature. If yes. Then that’s what I would focus on. Cuz mushrooms will grow in regular sunlight.

 

[Spicolte]

Your hydras are probably still fine, I run a pair of 10+ year old Vegas still over a 90g that still can grow anemones and soft corals like yours. What was your phosphate before you added lanthanum? With just soft corals, you can have pretty ridiculously high phosphate and nitrates with no issue. Having them shrink and not open is likely due to an irritant or something. Might want to try significant water changes (>20%) weekly, activated carbon if you aren't yet, and inspect your pumps and anything that could contain metal for rust or broken magnets. The other thing is confirm your method of measuring salinity is accurate or your source water is clean enough.

Agree with @H2OPlayar that algae is a lack of herbivore problem too, not a good indicator of excess nutrients.

Thanks. I appreciate that input. Salinity is measured with a refractometer. 1.023.

No carbon addition. Protein skimming. Refugium…but I’ve been growing more algae than Calerpa. Gfo in a reactor was added after Calerpa production ceased. (And with that did nothing to lower phosphate from .90 I added the LC just recently)

B-ionic is my only addition for calcium and alkalinity.

Fish load is porcupine puffer, Niger trigger, butterfly, purple tang, tomini tang and an engineer goby.

Water is RODI. ATO is used.

Thoughts?

 

[Spicolte]

I don’t think it’s your lights. Usually when you bottom out your numbers. Dinos or cyano will be next. That’s one problem.
The other problem is shrunken mushrooms. I would say. Look at something nipping them like fish or toxins. I’m going to assume that you have a ro/di and the reef is mature. If yes. Then that’s what I would focus on. Cuz mushrooms will grow in regular sunlight.

No nipping. Mushroom that face almost sideways open more than the ones on horizontal exposed rock. That makes me think lighting intensity. But, elephant ears are wide open and doing very well.

 

[Turkeysammich]

Why are you treating your fowlr like a reef ? Go back to basics. Cut out all the dosing and do just water changes.

 

[Darkxerox]

Thanks. I appreciate that input. Salinity is measured with a refractometer. 1.023.

No carbon addition. Protein skimming. Refugium…but I’ve been growing more algae than Calerpa. Gfo in a reactor was added after Calerpa production ceased. (And with that did nothing to lower phosphate from .90 I added the LC just recently)

B-ionic is my only addition for calcium and alkalinity.

Fish load is porcupine puffer, Niger trigger, butterfly, purple tang, tomini tang and an engineer goby.

Water is RODI. ATO is used.

Thoughts?

How are you calibrating your refractometer? Also I'm just seeing you're running a FOWLR tank and 1.023 is pretty low for some corals, you may want to shoot for 1.026 and bring it up slowly. Running carbon is a good way to check if anything is toxic that has built up as well. Bring some water to your LFS as well to confirm your refractometer is properly reading as well.

I went through your old tank journal and it seems like you had some of the same problems a few years ago. If you think it's lighting, I'd borrow the club's PAR meter, adjust your settings as necessary and post your lighting profile since a lot of members have the same lights.

 

[Turkeysammich]

How are you calibrating your refractometer? Also I'm just seeing you're running a FOWLR tank and 1.023 is pretty low for some corals, you may want to shoot for 1.026 and bring it up slowly. Running carbon is a good way to check if anything is toxic that has built up as well. Bring some water to your LFS as well to confirm your refractometer is properly reading as well.

I went through your old tank journal and it seems like you had some of the same problems a few years ago. If you think it's lighting, I'd borrow the club's PAR meter, adjust your settings as necessary and post your lighting profile since a lot of members have the same lights.

He can’t borrow club equipment. He’s not a member. I know people say this all the time. But it really valuable to be a member. If you borrow a par meter once. That pays for 2 years of membership. Rather than renting it from Brs for 60 dollars. Just saying.

 

[Spicolte]

He can’t borrow club equipment. He’s not a member. I know people say this all the time. But it really valuable to be a member. If you borrow a par meter once. That pays for 2 years of membership. Rather than renting it from Brs for 60 dollars. Just saying.

By member do you mean supporting member? I did pay for that when I posted last time.

 

[Spicolte]

How are you calibrating your refractometer? Also I'm just seeing you're running a FOWLR tank and 1.023 is pretty low for some corals, you may want to shoot for 1.026 and bring it up slowly. Running carbon is a good way to check if anything is toxic that has built up as well. Bring some water to your LFS as well to confirm your refractometer is properly reading as well.

I went through your old tank journal and it seems like you had some of the same problems a few years ago. If you think it's lighting, I'd borrow the club's PAR meter, adjust your settings as necessary and post your lighting profile since a lot of members have the same lights.

Good point. I did send my water off to be tested and it matched my readings, salinity included. I have my RODI water so that makes calibration not a difficult task to do again.

I’ve always shied away from carbon in a reef tank…nervous that I was taking out too “much”. Would you recommend a specific carbon I should use? I’ve only used chemi pure as needed or in nano tanks where skimming wasn’t an option.

 

[Spicolte]

You need phosphate in the water to grow stuff. Ultra low nutrients is now old school. You need herbivores to keep algae in check

Reef Beef Episode 52- Herbivores are the Answer

Herbivores are the Answer - Episode 52 In this episode we talk about Across eating flatworms, in-person shows, algae, herbivores, and plastic! Thank you to our sponsors: Powered by PolypLab: https://www.polyplab.com/ Saltwater Aquarium: https://www.SaltwaterAquarium.com?aff=20 The Veterans...

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Tomini and Purple tang munching away at the rocks but not touching the green algae I’m growing for some reason.

 

[Spicolte]

Why are you treating your fowlr like a reef ? Go back to basics. Cut out all the dosing and do just water changes.

I’m not dosing. Only the B Ionic products to maintain parameters. I say fowlr because it’s closer to that, but I do have mushrooms and elephant corals in this tank.

 

[Turkeysammich]

I’m not dosing. Only the B Ionic products to maintain parameters. I say fowlr because it’s closer to that, but I do have mushrooms and elephant corals in this tank.

I’m just trying to help you as I don’t know your experience. You stated Lanthiom chloride, gfo, b-ionic, fuge with capalra. Capalara can go a-sexual. All for a fowlr with mushrooms. You gotta stop. It’s just too much.
Stop it all. Pull the capalara out. Put in some cheato. Do a 50% water change then Do weekly 20% water changes. Come back in 1 month. Let us know how it’s going. I think you’ll be surprised how much it will turn around. Oh. Raise the salinity. It all starts with salinity.

 

[Darkxerox]

Good point. I did send my water off to be tested and it matched my readings, salinity included. I have my RODI water so that makes calibration not a difficult task to do again.

I’ve always shied away from carbon in a reef tank…nervous that I was taking out too “much”. Would you recommend a specific carbon I should use? I’ve only used chemi pure as needed or in nano tanks where skimming wasn’t an option.

It's good to use a calibration solution as well since not every refractometer is designed to calibrate off of RODI water. Running carbon isn't going to cause any problems at all as long as you rinse out the fines and don't let it get smashed up in a high flow area. Chemi pure should be fine here since it's a bit of a catch all for impurities.

 

[Spicolte]

It's good to use a calibration solution as well since not every refractometer is designed to calibrate off of RODI water. Running carbon isn't going to cause any problems at all as long as you rinse out the fines and don't let it get smashed up in a high flow area. Chemi pure should be fine here since it's a bit of a catch all for impurities.

I'll definitely add some and see if I notice any improvement. Thank you.

 

[Spicolte]

I’m just trying to help you as I don’t know your experience. You stated Lanthiom chloride, gfo, b-ionic, fuge with capalra. Capalara can go a-sexual. All for a fowlr with mushrooms. You gotta stop. It’s just too much.
Stop it all. Pull the capalara out. Put in some cheato. Do a 50% water change then Do weekly 20% water changes. Come back in 1 month. Let us know how it’s going. I think you’ll be surprised how much it will turn around. Oh. Raise the salinity. It all starts with salinity.

Please don't read my reply as argumentative because I do appreciate the help. I appreciate everyones help on this thread in fact. That said though, I have to politely disagree with your definition of "dosing" or that I am doing too much. This is certainly not a coral tank, you are correct, but I need to maintain pH and dKH, hence the B-Ionic. I don't define that as dosing, simply maintaining my water parameters. Even a tank without corals is going to need the water parameters to stay stable. The GFO via my reactor was added to my system to lower a phosphate that would not budge below .90 even *with* water changes. When that failed, I tried the lanthanum chloride. When I performed a 35 gallon change recently and my PO4 went up the next day...put yourself in my place...adding the LC to remove phosphate made sense. But that dose is what brought my PO4 to zero (too far I know)

The calerpa is gone, disintegrated. Cheato is in there, but not growing either, and also disappearing. I'm perplexed why. I have the proper lighting and run it over night while the main tank light is off. All I was growing was green algae in there, so I shut off the lights, cleaned out the algae from the walls and gravel and I'm starting over with more cheato. I've done the water changes you recommend, and have seen no changes. I can certainly try again. Are you suggesting that weekly 20% water changes is what this tank needs going forward or just for short time?

Heck, I'd add in a bunch of corals if I thought that would balance this tank, but given my mushrooms aren't opening, I need to solve the problem in front of me. if they aren't happy, something is affecting them.

My 100 gallon tank in contrast is filled with elephant ears and fully open and happy mushrooms. It sees no water changes, has no refugium and has additions of B-Ionic only twice a month. Same number of fish, but much smaller and as such less waste.

 

[H2OPlayar]

What are you trying to fix? Algae growth? Pluck it manually as much as you can and get more herbivores like urchins and turbo snails to eat the new growth.