got ethical husbandry?

My first Fish copper Qt treatment

Turkeysammich said:
Wrasse, some angels , anthias, some tangs, butterflies don’t do well in copper especially over 2.0. They die. Copper isn’t as good as YouTube people make it seem.
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Yes seriously I make it through this headache. I won't be randomly tossing in fish into existing tanks any more. I wouldn't wanna experience this tank wide issue again.

It would be far easier treating 1-2 new fish than a full tank of them.
 
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Day 7 @ 2.2 copper power update


The fish are eating like they were in main tank. Zero signs of any spots or odd behavior.

3 days ago I lost the baby yellow tang. It had stopped eating. I noticed a brown spot on it's mouth. I assumed maybe it was stressed out. The next afternoon I found it dead. And the area where the brown spot was on it's mouth had like disintegrated.

This cause me to research possibly causes. Online I came up with a likely bacterial infection of some kind. This is something I've never heard off or knew the signs to be on the look out for. Had I know I would have attempted some type of action to help it. Sadly another difficult lesson.

I've to this point preformed 1 tank swap (moved all the fish from one tank to the other), and one 80% water change. (Took the water all the way down to where the fish were still able to swim up right on the bottom of the glass)

I likely won't do another tank swap semi stressful on the fish catching them and dropping them in similar yet new environment. I will just stick with the water changes until the treatment period is over.


Any recommendations on should I go with 14 days qt or 30 ???

I've seen both methods mentioned on humble reef and other places. Yet I don't have a experienced based personal experience.
"The fish seem to be tolerating the CP at present. So I have not objection to either method at present."
 
all fish looking great and eating is always a great sign @MichaelB.. I believe both the videos are from the same tank, but guessing from the video name, probably you wanted to share video from different tanks. Is that a Yellow tang or Scopas in the video? or maybe QT changed YT to a 100k Yellow tang which is white in color ;) sorry I got a problem, I cant look beyond anything that looks like a Yellow tang :)
 
also, are those pebbles at the bottom? I am certain, rocks and sand aren't recommended when treating with Copper, a quick chat with gemini said Pebbles can absorb Copper too.. please do the necessary research and take action if needed
 
spuri87 said:
all fish looking great and eating is always a great sign @MichaelB.. I believe both the videos are from the same tank, but guessing from the video name, probably you wanted to share video from different tanks. Is that a Yellow tang or Scopas in the video? or maybe QT changed YT to a 100k Yellow tang which is white in color ;) sorry I got a problem, I cant look beyond anything that looks like a Yellow tang :)
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There isn't a yellow tang it passed away 3 days ago. That's a scopas tang. Yes 2 vidoes of Same tank. One I was playing follow the leader with puffer.
 
OK so another update here. Tomorrow is day 30 of fish quarantine since getting them into therapeutic range with copper power.

***There are a few questions at the bottom for those with experience in qt.***


I started with dual 40 gallon breeders yet lost half the fish during the first week of treatment. So I quickly abandoned uses both tanks for quarantine. As lots of fish in the tank was sadly no longer a concern.


Qt was started with the following fish.

Tangs:
clown tang 5/6 inches (died 5 days in)
Yellow tang 2.5 inches died around 8 days in
Scopas tang 4 inches alive and thriving

Wrasses: All died
Yellow Corris Wrasse 3 inches dies 4 days in
(Possibly eaten by puffer fish?)
Melanurus wrasse 4 inches died 9 days in
Green pastel Corris Wrasse died day 2 in

Angels:
Coral beauty: healthy and thriving
Flame angel: healthy and thriving

Clownfish:
Lighting maroon female 2.5 inches alive and thriving
Lighting maroon male 3/4 inch vanished day one (likely eaten by puffer ???)

Rabbit fish:
Yellow foxface 5 inches alive and thriving

Porcupine Puffer 5 inches alive and thriving.
It started as the sickest fish and had all but stopped eating for several days.

There have been no signs of ich after about the 3rd day of therapeutic cp levels in quarantine systems. There have also been no visible signs of ich in any of the other tanks.


Current plan is to stop the copper treatment tomorrow.

I drained the other tank completely a week ago left it dry for 4-5 days. 2 days ago I filled it with tap water. Ran heater wave maker and hob filter with bleach in the system. Today I drained the system dried every surface with paper towels including hob filter.

And removed the sechem matrix bags that were in the filter to air dry.

I tossed the sponge filter from this tank.

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I took some rocks out the 210gallon tank 3 weeks ago. I left them soaking in water with bleach killing all the lyngbya cyano. I took them out the bleach water today and laid them out to air dry.

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I plan to run this tank thats dry at the observation tank.

I will run a bag of CupriSorb to remove any residual copper from this tank. In addtion to using the carbon and a new sponge filters that came with the hobby filter- not used during qt.

I'm considering using the same air stone for the sponge filter that was used during copper treatment. Honestly not sure if there is a risk here being it's only half a inch in size and I will be running copper remover.

I'm wanted to use tbe rock that was bleached and currently air drying in this system being it should be perfectly sterile after long bleached soak.

I will take one of my biobricks from main sps tank to seed this rock in the observation tank.

I'm hoping that I can get this tank running tomorrow. I wouldn't move the fish over for another few days. However In the current tank with copper power used as qt I will also add some CupriSorb to began removing the copper from that system. While I give this observation tank time to establish its self.

I also welcome comments on something I maybe not be considering or advice on things I'm just not aware of. Thanks.

I will be out the country until the end of May and I would be leaving before the fallow period on 210 ends. So this would likely be a longer observation period. With me gone hoping to have the tank stable enough not to need any water changes for 3.5 weeks. I would plan to move fish over after my return. Kids will feed fish and fill atop for me on all tanks.

Should I be concerned about ammonia with these rocks I bleached and am letting air out maybe I'll give it two days to air out unless thats a gamble? I did hear that once bleach is let to air dry it's harmless at that point?

Alternatively i have amquel as well as prime ammonia remover.

Is using this tiny air stone a concern with copper?

Lastly and I right in assuming if I need out the fish from the qt tanks to put into the observation there should be no risk kf transferring ich? Assuming the copper should have killed it all off by now?

If not what's the best way to remove fish from qt system to observation tank with minimal risk?
 
Technically yes. If you were in therapeutic levels for 30 days. Velvet and ich should be dead. What temp did you have your aquarium at 78-80 makes the hatch faster. 74-75. They sleep longer in the cysts. I think that’s how people fail. Did you treat for flukes ? It’s the silent killer. Regarding your rock. I’m on the fence. It takes a long time to cure rock where the bio mass is strong enough to process ammonia. Your bio brick will do all the heavy lifting. The rock might cycle and hurt you. Dunno. Or it may be inert and just move on. Depends on how much junk is stuck in the rock. No one can answer that question.
 
Turkeysammich said:
Technically yes. If you were in therapeutic levels for 30 days. Velvet and ich should be dead. What temp did you have your aquarium at 78-80 makes the hatch faster. 74-75. They sleep longer in the cysts. I think that’s how people fail. Did you treat for flukes ? It’s the silent killer. Regarding your rock. I’m on the fence. It takes a long time to cure rock where the bio mass is strong enough to process ammonia. Your bio brick will do all the heavy lifting. The rock might cycle and hurt you. Dunno. Or it may be inert and just move on. Depends on how much junk is stuck in the rock. No one can answer that question.
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I stayed at 78 in qt tank. 210gallon tank is at 81-83 trying to speed up fallow period. But ai decided if I add observation period of 30 days. I might as well just run thr full 72days fallow.

I guess a similar question is would you personally just go with the biobrick and put the Pic elbows back. Or take a chance with the rocks. More just seeking your opinion.

Only kinda concern was during qt I change 90/95 % of the water each week. Would fish be find for 3+ weeks without a water change is what I'm kinda stuck on. Granted I leave may 4th through may 28th. So I kinda have a few weeks to trying to semi cycle the tank.

Never treated for flukes. I've heard mention of them but don't really know what they are. Will have to look it up.
 
I would set up the biggest aquarium you have. Add as many seed bio bricks or live rock/ live sand. I wouldn’t use the new rock. It can go sideways.
Treat for flukes and feed med food to clean out internal parasites. Then your fish will be squeaky clean.
Oh borrow that 150gallon tub that’s floating around
 
MichaelB said:
I stayed at 78 in qt tank. 210gallon tank is at 81-83 trying to speed up fallow period. But ai decided if I add observation period of 30 days. I might as well just run thr full 72days fallow.

I guess a similar question is would you personally just go with the biobrick and put the Pic elbows back. Or take a chance with the rocks. More just seeking your opinion.

Only kinda concern was during qt I change 90/95 % of the water each week. Would fish be find for 3+ weeks without a water change is what I'm kinda stuck on. Granted I leave may 4th through may 28th. So I kinda have a few weeks to trying to semi cycle the tank.

Never treated for flukes. I've heard mention of them but don't really know what they are. Will have to look it up.
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Flukes super easy to treat for, Prazipro is your friend..
 
divewsharks said:
to clarify, Prazi (no common treatment) kills any eggs. You are treating first time to kill adults/juveniles. 2nd treatment is to kills any new hatchlings. I generally do a third to be thorough.
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Hmm not sure what’s accurate, but this is what Gemini says:
  • Egg Resistance: Praziquantel does not kill fluke eggs (ova), making follow-up treatment necessary to eliminate survivors.

anyways, I guess ‘why’ doesn’t matter.. I just wanted to suggest to do at least 2 rounds :)
 
I see the typo:
“to clarify, Prazi DOES NOT kill any eggs.”(no common treatment will)
If you are using a treatment that will not kill the host, it’s not going to kill the eggs; hence the multiple treatments. This is the same for coral parasites and ICH/velvet.

My phone tried to correct the grammar, since I wasn’t writing in complete enough sentences.
 
divewsharks said:
I see the typo:
“to clarify, Prazi DOES NOT kill any eggs.”(no common treatment will)
If you are using a treatment that will not kill the host, it’s not going to kill the eggs; hence the multiple treatments. This is the same for coral parasites and ICH/velvet.

My phone tried to correct the grammar, since I wasn’t writing in complete enough sentences.
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So how long do I treat them for seeing you refrenced 2 doses. I haven't removed copper yet. I was thinking of maybe doing it over the next day or two or likely just moving fish to the other tank.

I did fill the extra tank with new rodi water, carbon , filter pads, CupriSorb after sterilizing everything in anticipation of mixing new salt water. And transferring all the fish to new tank and sterilizing the one currently in use.
 
MichaelB said:
So how long do I treat them for seeing you refrenced 2 doses. I haven't removed copper yet. I was thinking of maybe doing it over the next day or two or likely just moving fish to the other tank.

I did fill the extra tank with new rodi water, carbon , filter pads, CupriSorb after sterilizing everything in anticipation of mixing new salt water. And transferring all the fish to new tank and sterilizing the one currently in use.
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I followed these instructions when I dosed Prazi: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-praziquantel-pzq.1105700/
 
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