Nutrient Rich vs Nutrient Poor

[GDawson]

When we speak of a nutrient rich environment are we specifically talking about NO3 and PO4? Are there any other factors?

I’m really focusing on a softie tank with a great diversity of corals (not so much palys, or zoas but the tree like and finger like species with gorgonians. All photosynthetic). In my readings it appears that they, as a rule, seem to prefer a more nutrient rich environment. For the last few months I have been seriously trying to eliminate the NO3 and PO4 (not much of this) from my tanks…is this counterproductive?

BTW – any good local sources of the more unusual species would be appreciated. Other than some of the standard colts, toadstools, and kenya trees there isn’t a lot to choose from. Internet shopping is limited because they don’t tend to do much WYSIWYG with softies.

-Gregory

 

[nudibranch]

I know that Caesar's has a lot of sympodium and some azoox.

 

[treylane]

I beg to differ on the lack of wysiwyg for softies, Diver's Den puts up pretty freaky leathers and stuff regularly, just keep a close eye on their softies section. Neptune has usually has some neat stuff in stock as well.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+7&ddid=112333

 

[GDawson]

I beg to differ on the lack of wysiwyg for softies, Diver's Den puts up pretty freaky leathers and stuff regularly, just keep a close eye on their softies section. Neptune has usually has some neat stuff in stock as well.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+7&ddid=112333

You are correct about Divers Den...but it can be hit and miss. They are also pricey with shipping. Live Aquaria also has some "stock" items that might be interesting, but offers no WYSIWYG.

I live in Vallejo so sojourns to Neptunes and others down south don't happen very often. I did get a nice bright yellow Fiji toadstool from Neptunes a couple of months back.

-Gregory

 

[GDawson]

I know that Caesar's has a lot of sympodium and some azoox.

Thanks for the tip....I do have some sympodium that's doing quite well. No azoox stuff yet. That will be a specifically designed tank down the road.

-Gregory

 

[GDawson]

When we speak of a nutrient rich environment are we specifically talking about NO3 and PO4? Are there any other factors?

Anybody?

I see references that say some corals do like a nutrient rich environment, and in the same breath they say that the corals are sensitive to nitrates and phosphates. Then elsewhere I see water with high nitrates and phophates are considered nutrient rich and contributes to algae blooms.

Are we talking about two different types of nutrient rich? When people said that their colts/softies did better in a "dirty" or skimmerless tank I took that to mean high nitrates/phosphates from decayed food and fish waste.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused.

-Gregory

 

[tuberider]

http://reefbuilders.com/2009/10/29/ulns-load-detritus-ultra-nutrient-system-desert/

There are many facets to the ULNS methods, not only NO3 or PO4, but the DOCs as well as AAs, there are many levels.

 

[GDawson]

Looks like I'm back to "if it works for you" do it.

From a link in the article you referenced

I think one of the problems is the definition of the term “Ultra Low Nutrient System.” It seems to me that this description really has nothing to do with the amount of nutrients in the system. Reading some of the forums where the term ULNS is most often used it looks like people understand ULNS as a system that uses some form of DOC dosing and/or zeolites to aid in nutrient export. Obviously that tells us nothing about how much dissolved nutrients there really are in the water. Some “ULNS experts” even insist that you should always have some measurable phosphates and nitrates in a “ULNS” reef aquarium. Talk about contradiction in terms!

http://grumpyreefer.net/2009/10/28/ulns-is-not-really-l-and-far-from-ul/

Any chance of a speaker that will tounch on this?

-Gregory

P.S. Bread dough is in the 3 to 4 hour rest stage

 

[tuberider]

I guess it depends on who is coming in June

I just did my first turn, pulled out the big guns this time with the SF starter, we're going 6 super sour loaves today!!!!

 

[GreshamH]

http://reefbuilders.com/2009/10/29/ulns-load-detritus-ultra-nutrient-system-desert/

There are many facets to the ULNS methods, not only NO3 or PO4, but the DOCs as well as AAs, there are many levels.

and DOMs, enzymes, polysaccharides, etc etc. It's a super complex web of stuff most of which we can't simulate. Then there is also quite a bit we really just don't know.

 

[tuberider]

My tank is a Bunch Of Random Shit That Is In There (BORSTIIT)

 

[GreshamH]

Mine as well (MO aquarium water is SCARY)

 

[tuberider]

Yes it is, I'm still trying to figure out how to get a pipe down to Montara Beach

 

[GreshamH]

Just get like 100x 100' garden hoses and a mag24 :lol:

 

[tuberider]

Just get like 100x 100' garden hoses and a mag24 :lol:

Good idea, I bet I can boost power from Joel (don't tell him though).

 

[GreshamH]

Or get 100x 100' extension cords and be legit

 

[Matt_Wandell]

Even when hobby test kits are reading "zero", there is still plenty of inorganic NO3 and PO4 present in an aquarium that neither of these are limiting for corals.

IME softies seem to be ambivalent to the NO3 and PO4 concentrations, but seem to grow faster in lightly skimmed or heavily fed tanks. My take on it (purely speculation) is that they are simply capturing a lot of organic "gunk" as food.

Elements that may (big emphasis on may) be limiting for corals in aquariums--iron, manganese, iodine. You may try adding them daily and seeing what effect, if any, they have on your coral growth and/or color. If you have any macroalgae you should see the effect iron has on it within days.

 

[GDawson]

Elements that may (big emphasis on may) be limiting for corals in aquariums--iron, manganese, iodine. You may try adding them daily and seeing what effect, if any, they have on your coral growth and/or color. If you have any macroalgae you should see the effect iron has on it within days.

Daily? Even if I'm doing 30% weekly WCs? Or reduce the prescribed dosage?


-Gregory

 

[GreshamH]

Elements that may (big emphasis on may) be limiting for corals in aquariums--iron, manganese, iodine. You may try adding them daily and seeing what effect, if any, they have on your coral growth and/or color. If you have any macroalgae you should see the effect iron has on it within days.

Daily? Even if I'm doing 30% weekly WCs? Or reduce the prescribed dosage?


-Gregory

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_brightbill_wc.html

 

[GDawson]

Elements that may (big emphasis on may) be limiting for corals in aquariums--iron, manganese, iodine. You may try adding them daily and seeing what effect, if any, they have on your coral growth and/or color. If you have any macroalgae you should see the effect iron has on it within days.

Daily? Even if I'm doing 30% weekly WCs? Or reduce the prescribed dosage?


-Gregory

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_brightbill_wc.html

Good Reading......Thanks

-Gregory