Reef nutrition

Torch order came in rough, advice?

PizzaOven

PizzaOven

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I recently ordered a torch from an online vendor (not going to name names). It came in pretty rough shape. One of the heads looks like it's bailing out (or maybe BJD?)
1773959547673.png

The box shipped with a cold pack and the bag still felt cool (~60F-70F) which was a relief given the hot weather.

No way I'm putting this with my other torches.. I currently have it in a bucket with a heater and powerhead:
1773959645578.png


Any advice? Should I treat for BJD in the bucket? Cut off the questionable head? Quarantine in a tank without euphyllia?

Thanks in advance.
 
I would quarantine in a tank without euphyllia. Maybe an iodine bath or possibly antibiotics (but be responsible with usage and disposal).

Head you pointed out is not undergoing bailout, that is necrosis, and I wouldn’t want that tissue, which is probably teeming with copiotrophic bacteria, to be added to my tank.

Clean the dead bits off in the bath before putting it in a tank

Contact the seller because that is DOA.
 
Yea bj is no joke I lost half of two tanks of euphyllia from it. I only stopped it by literally throwing away everyone that showed the slightest sign of bj. I tried different dips but had no luck personally.

All that to say beyond everything don't add that to any tank with euphyllia or torches. Treat it like people who you heard coughed twice in the middle of covid lmao. "I hope you feel better but stay the heck away from me"
 
I would cut off the dead head. If any of the other heads have melting flesh, the chance of them surviving is very low. Assuming the other two heads are in the early stages I would.
  • KFC Dip and follow the process.(If you don't have it readily available, I can make you some.
  • Put the torch in a zip loc bag filled with the KFC Dip. I have done this for 24hr period depending on the severity.
  • Remember to use hydrogen peroxide before and after.
Edit: put the ziploc bag with the torch in the sump of your aquarium :)
 
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll keep it in the bucket for now and treat with Iodine. After that, I'll move it to a tank without any euphyllia. Multiple tank syndrome is finally paying dividends...

Alexander1312 said:
I still think it would be beneficial to name names.

Also, get your torches from Dan / @dandemeyere when he sells them, other well known club members, or our resident LFS High Tide or Neptune, and you will not see these issues, guaranteed.
Click to expand...
I've reached out to the vendor as @tribbitt suggested. I'm going to give the vendor time to respond and make it right before putting them on blast. I always try to buy locally, but in this case, I was ordering something I could not find locally. The torch was just an add-on.

fishy408 said:
I would cut off the dead head. If any of the other heads have melting flesh, the chance of them surviving is very low. Assuming the other two heads are in the early stages I would.
  • KFC Dip and follow the process.(If you don't have it readily available, I can make you some.
  • Put the torch in a zip loc bag filled with the KFC Dip. I have done this for 24hr period depending on the severity.
  • Remember to use hydrogen peroxide before and after.
Click to expand...
I may take you up on that. I think I have most of the ingredients. Missing the amoxicillin but have access to everything else.
 
MichaelB said:
Could you explain their use for treatiing euphyllia and torches. I was told it should help for bj.

I would take it as a honest opportunity to learn something.
Click to expand...

Technical answer about antibiotics.

Amoxicillin is a broad spectrum antibiotic that inhibits cell wall production in bacteria.

Ciprofloxicin is a broad spectrum antibiotic in the quinolone family of antibiotics that stops certain enzymes from replicating DNA.

How it helps with torches exhibiting tissue necrosis. The simple, fact based answer is no one knows. The cause of Brown Jelly Disease is not actually known. I believe the most work has been done by aquabiomics and they believe it is linked to a strain of Arcobacter. There are also some that believe that it is cause by a protozoan and if that is the case, antibiotics shouldn't work.

I am not a fan of the KFC dip. I hate that it is promoted so much and so often. It promotes a blind shotgun approach to solving a problem that is not understood and it does so in a way that could prevent us saving future torch/hammer/frogspawn issues and also potentially screwing humans over.

1. Overuse of antibiotics could lead to bacterial resistance for things that actually cause us problems.
2. The fact that they "dip it" and don't use a prolonged exposure of the potential offending bacteria to the antibiotic increases the chance of creating an antibiotic resistant bacteria. Why do you think the doctor tells you to finish the bottle of antibiotics even if your symptoms no longer exist?

So to answer your question on how do antibiotics help torches? If it is in fact Arcobacter, one of the antibiotics could actually be killing the bacteria.

Or in the case of the KFC Dip, it could be lowering the amount of bacteria the torch has to deal with allowing it to recover on it own. This would also be the case if it was a Protozoan that caused the issue. Antibiotics would prevent secondary infections that would be detrimental to a torch recovering.
 
MichaelB said:
Could you explain their use for treatiing euphyllia and torches. I was told it should help for bj.

I would take it as a honest opportunity to learn something.
Click to expand...

Antibiotics kill bacteria. The way they do it however is different, with different “groups” that do them by messing with various cellular processes.

Ciprofloxacin and oxolinic acid work more similarly as they are different generations of quinolone antibiotics, for example, but amoxicillin is different and closer related to penicillin

RandyC said:
Technical answer about antibiotics.

Amoxicillin is a broad spectrum antibiotic that inhibits cell wall production in bacteria.

Ciprofloxicin is a broad spectrum antibiotic in the quinolone family of antibiotics that stops certain enzymes from replicating DNA.

How it helps with torches exhibiting tissue necrosis. The simple, fact based answer is no one knows. The cause of Brown Jelly Disease is not actually known. I believe the most work has been done by aquabiomics and they believe it is linked to a strain of Arcobacter. There are also some that believe that it is cause by a protozoan and if that is the case, antibiotics shouldn't work.

I am not a fan of the KFC dip. I hate that it is promoted so much and so often. It promotes a blind shotgun approach to solving a problem that is not understood and it does so in a way that could prevent us saving future torch/hammer/frogspawn issues and also potentially screwing humans over.

1. Overuse of antibiotics could lead to bacterial resistance for things that actually cause us problems.
2. The fact that they "dip it" and don't use a prolonged exposure of the potential offending bacteria to the antibiotic increases the chance of creating an antibiotic resistant bacteria. Why do you think the doctor tells you to finish the bottle of antibiotics even if your symptoms no longer exist?

So to answer your question on how do antibiotics help torches? If it is in fact Arcobacter, one of the antibiotics could actually be killing the bacteria.

Or in the case of the KFC Dip, it could be lowering the amount of bacteria the torch has to deal with allowing it to recover on it own. This would also be the case if it was a Protozoan that caused the issue. Antibiotics would prevent secondary infections that would be detrimental to a torch recovering.
Click to expand...

Everything said here I agree with. Do what you want but these are all totally valid concerns reefers should know before making any decisions
 
For the record, I am (also) totally against the promotion of using antibiotics to help corals recover. There must be other ways. (Trigger warning) I feel this is a lazy approach to solving a problem.
 
One more bit of general info..
Not all antibiotics kill bacteria. Some are bactericidal which means they kill bacteria. Others are bacteriostatic which means they stop bacterial growth but rely on the patient’s immune system to kill of the bacteria.
 
Alexander1312 said:
For the record, I am (also) totally against the promotion of using antibiotics to help corals recover. There must be other ways. (Trigger warning) I feel this is a lazy approach to solving a problem.
Click to expand...

At times, antibiotics are a necessary answer to the problem. I'm not against using antibiotics in these cases. But the problem lies when used without reason, incorrectly or as a "dip".
 
gmdcdvm said:
One more bit of general info..
Not all antibiotics kill bacteria. Some are bactericidal which means they kill bacteria. Others are bacteriostatic which means they stop bacterial growth but rely on the patient’s immune system to kill of the bacteria.
Click to expand...
good point, like ampicillin
 
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