Anathema's 120G Rebuild.

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by anathema, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    Leak test #1 tonight. It was fairly exciting with lots of flavorful language until I figured out I'd put that whole manifold together then attached it to a cracked bulkhead. I've rebuilt one of the sections and hopefully when it's dry in the morning it won't leak. I'm very glad I used unions...

    Fun story about the unions though. I got them from Home Depot, and I had cleaned out the box, so I got the last 4 3/4" bulkheads. When I figured out that I'd need to rebuild, I was hoping they had restocked in the 3 days since I bought them. I got there at 9:30 PM, out of options if I wanted to get it together by tomorrow, and saw the still empty box on the shelf. So I asked an employee if they might have any in stock, and he scanned them and said it showed another box in stock. So we tore apart all the shelves, looked behind everything, climbed the ladder, no luck.

    Finally as a last ditch effort, I pulled the bins out on the bottom row, and laying on the ground, mixed in with a bunch of other stray fittings, was a 3/4" union exactly like I needed. Yay! :D

    I sure hope this doesn't leak when I test it tomorrow!
     
  2. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    Leak test #2 passed. Kind of underwhelmed by the closed loop output, but I guess it's decent.
     
  3. LeviT

    LeviT Guest

    In a tank that big accelerators may help?
     
  4. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    Hmm, I'm not using a pressure rated pump, and I was planning on hiding my returns stealthily, so I hadn't really considered eductors. I think it will work, I didn't realize that the sea squirt has 1.5 outlets open at all times, so now that I realize that it seems like it's decent. I have the return pump output coming out of one nozzle at the moment and it seems like it's much more than the output from the closed loop, that's because it's coming out two places.

    The flow does seem to circle around and eddy with the outlets set up like I have them, which is kind of neat. I'm wondering if I'll need the sea swirls or not.

    I'm also trying to decide whether or not to glue the outlet pipes in. They are pretty secure, but I'm not 100% sure if I'll keep them where they are. Once they are buried in sand they'd have a hard time moving, but it'd be pretty disastrous if one did come loose after the tank was all together.
     
  5. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    you're probably losing a ton of flow from the bends in your pipe, the OM switcher, and the fact the output pipes are larger than the nozzle on the pump no?
     
  6. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    +1, Nozzle size makes a big difference in how the flow feels. I haven't used the switcher you're using, but from my experience the scwds cut down on flow quite a bit. I love the idea if them, but they just impede flow too much for me. Also, maybe increasing the size or having less restriction on the I take may help.
     
  7. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    The intake is 1" up until the pump, which is threaded for 3/4". I have NEVER liked how they thread the inside of the intake side of the mag pumps. I used to use a mag 5 for water changes and am just now remembering that threading a hose barb in the inlet seriously reduced flow, so that might be a big chunk of the problem. I may have to play around with some ideas for hose clamping a 1" hose over the outside of the intake. Or just find another brand of pump eventually.

    The outlet of the pump is 3/4" and so is the rest of the plumbing, including the outlets. I considered putting those loc line "duckbill" outlets on it, but I wasn't sure if I'd like them. That's a good tip on outlet nozzles though, I may end up doing that if I can find some that aren't obtrusive.The flow isn't that bad, but it is noticeably less than my return, which is the same pump, both are mag 9.5 pumps of different vintages. I had to buy a new impeller for the return today, but they both seem about equal running with nothing attached.

    I can't really do anything about all those bends, the manifold had to fit in the space available. FWIW, the ocean motions is supposed to be better than the scwd because it's motorized as opposed to robbing energy from the flow through it. If I'm really unhappy with it later, I'll just step up to a mag 12 on the closed loop, since the OM is rated at 1000GPH, with the loss from the plumbing that should about max it out.
     
  8. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    IIRC the output nozzle has threads on the outside, which means you're really not getting a 3/4" hole like you have on your pipes, so it won't feel anywhere close to the "pressure" when you just put the pump in water.

    Also the OM, will usually have 2 ports open at any one time, except for a tiny instant where you'll have all the flow going to one.
     
  9. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    Yeah I've been reading some threads about closed loops and finding a bunch of complaints abouttge threaded inlet on mag pumps. I may have to shop for a new pump.

    I'm trying to decide if gluing a pipe to the outside of the intake would help, but it's probably not worth the hassle.
     
  10. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    I had a short day at work today, so I had an opportunity to tackle the closed loop's low flow issue. Here is what I did, and it seems to have improved it dramatically.

    If you look at a mag 9.5 pump, you'll see that on the intake side it is only threaded to accept a male fitting. Who knows why they did this, but I tested it today with the pump pulled loose from the plumbing, and just adding the hose barb to the pump reduced flow so dramatically I could feel it easily with my hand in front of the pump. So I took the pump with me to Urban Farmer and asked them if they had any hose that would fit snugly over the OUTSIDE of the pump intake.

    Like so:
    [​IMG]

    Which installed, looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    Also it now pulls through this:
    [​IMG]

    All of which add up to a dramatic improvement. Hopefully without a loss of dependability, as I'm a bit concerned that the hose is now on a fitting with no ridges. However, I had to heat it with hot water to get the hose on there, so I think it will work fine. As of now, the smallest diameter item on the suction side is the mouth of the pump. The pump runs quietly with no cavitation, and I'm happy with the flow I'm seeing in the display. For anyone wishing to do this, the hose size for my Mag 9.5 pump was 1 1/4".

    Thanks to both Mike's for spotting the issue and the spot on pointers, I'm very happy to catch this issue at this stage rather than after I start putting sand and rocks in. :beer:

    Now I'm letting it run all night to test the stability of the system. Wish me luck!
     
  11. JAR

    JAR Supporting Member

    It should be fine... put some superglue on it if your worried. after all, It's suction as opposed to pressure.
     
  12. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Maybe you can glue that tube onto the pump just to make extra sure? Nice work btw!
     
  13. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I would use a threaded fitting on the input side of that pump and not that zip tied piece of vinyl(??) hose... while I'm not worried too much about leakage, what happens WHEN you need to clean the pump out? the way it looks in the pictures looks like you might have a problem removing it.. unless you're willing to simply cut the hose and replace it :D
     
  14. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    Good point, but I've already thought of this one. :D

    I actually have already had to take it apart and reassemble it, and it's not that bad. When I first put it together the hose was 1/2" too long and the pump was touching the bottom of the tank, creating a nice loud rattle. Once the hose is stretched out, it's removable and replaceable. Yes, I have to destroy 3 zip ties to do it, but that's acceptable to me. Also, it is possible to remove the screws for the face plate of the pump and clean the impeller without removing the hose at all. It's not super convenient, but it's not the worst mechanical contortion I've had to do either. I hope that hose works, out of the ones I tried it was the best fit. My worry is that if the suction ever gets plugged, it will collapse the hose and it won't stretch back out well. Or that it pops off.

    Hopefully it's as dependable as the return pump, which I have never had to clean more often than every 6 months or more.

    Too busy to work on it today, but I've decided to reroute the outlets for the closed loop, I'm going to have 2 in the back, and route the pipes for the front corners along the edge so my rockwork fits. Still working on a plan for aquascaping, I bought a 50# bag of emaco 400 and a gallon of acryl 60. I'm betting that's too much, but it's the smallest size I could get locally.
     
  15. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Might be interested in some if you wind up with extra.
     
  16. anathema

    anathema Supporting Member

    I'll let you know, I'm pretty sure I will.
     
  17. newhobby

    newhobby Guest

    I don't think the pump has the ability of creating vacuum to colapse the hose.
     
  18. jestersix

    jestersix Sponsor

    You will have plenty of extra on the Emaco and Acryl - even if you do some practice runs. Emaco goes a long way - good luck with the build, really looking forward to see what you come up with.
     
  19. houser

    houser Past President

    Plumbing monster!
     
  20. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Looking good Gusty !
     

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