DeFarts' IM 50gal Lagoon Journey
- Thread starter ReyDeFarts
- Start date
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
Regardless of quality the upkeep remains the same
You are doing things based upon the numbers you see
If they are inaccurate...there’s a problem
I’m just saying
Clean your probes
And calibrate regularly
You are doing things based upon the numbers you see
If they are inaccurate...there’s a problem
I’m just saying
Clean your probes
And calibrate regularly
I agree. I have several pH pen probes that I have been using. All are calibrated regularly. They don't swing anywhere near the amount of the cheapo constant monitoring device I recently tried. It's quick and easy to do a 3 point calibration. I picked up another good unit (Apera PH60) from @Alexander1312 for a frag trade. I've been happy with that one. I compare that with a couple others I keep around just to make sure I'm getting consistent results.
BAYMAC
Guest
We did them weekly as several places I've worked. Buy the cal fluids in bulk!
derek_SR
Supporting Member
I am using Milwaukees right now, and have used Aperas in the past as well.
My experience wasn't too different, probes were typically off by .1-.15 when calibrated. But when we are talking about a typical range of say, 7.8-8.3 or so, being off by .1 or .15 is a variance of 20-30% within that range. And when you consider that PH is a logarithmic scale...this is not meaningful precision. I also found that my probes were off pretty much any time I calibrated them - within a week or two, or a month or two, there was very little consistent behavior. I have two identical Milwaukee probes right now, purchased at the same time, that can be calibrated successfully at the same time and show different readings sitting in my sump immediately afterward. The first thing I do after seeing a puzzling swing in PH is recalibrate the probe, and my PH almost always falls back into the "typical" range for me.
I like having PH probes, to be clear - the information is still useful when looking at trends after making changes, for example I could see an "improvement" in my PH when I ran my skimmer line outside. Like most testing in our hobby, the absolute value is not entirely trustworthy, but the relative value is useful information. So worrying about PH that is too low or too high or not high enough is simply not worth it, IMO! it also makes it difficult to compare your PH to anybody else, unless you know exactly what equipment they are using, when it was calibrated last, and so on. Yet people stress over this constantly!
Another thing that considerably reduced my PH anxiety was understanding that at a given temperature, there is a constant mathematical relationship between Alk, CO2 level, and PH:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wMRMZ1R3xS6ii2mG4uHs/htmlview?pli=1&usp=gmail
This is kind of why I mostly just pay attention to my CO2 meter 90% of the time. It's not scientifically accurate either, but just gives me a heads up if I've had the windows closed for too long or whatever. It's a better leading indicator. I pretty much manage PH by ensuring there's enough fresh air in my home. Anything else is either a big swing in alk, or some kind of large CO2 production/consumption event happening in the tank.
Edit - some good reading from RHF on PH: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium.7/
100% agree with this and understood. It's about a target for me and something to attempt to keep consistent is my current goal. I understand that "hobby" grade probes are nowhere near what I would consider precision. But getting consistent readings with what I have and understanding how to improve it, is what I'm really after.
I'm with you about the anxiety of chasing numbers, and in this case pH. I'm not stressing too much about it. Just trying to better understand the ebb and flow of the tank and how the consumption of all the elements effect one another. If I can just keep things consistent, then my anxiety of a crash withers away.
Yep it's more for trending. pH probes trend to drift slowly and in one direction in my experience, so it's still valuable as something that can tell you if something is wrong (e.g. your kalkwasser drip ran out, your CaRx ran out of CO2, a pump died and your sump is getting stagnant, the pH of your new salt is crazy, time to open a window etc.)
If Hydros or anyone comes out with a CO2 meter, then we'd really be in business too!
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
This is interesting. I believe the reason I care mainly/only about PH (and temp) on a daily basis is because I decided to go with the most basic APEX set up (not an APEX fan). If you have more data points, such as Alk levels etc, you leverage all of this to come to a conclusion if there is a problem with the tank that needs fixing, and not only PH. I found though that ‘just’ looking at PH gives me the peace of mind I need (or triggers actions) without needing a more complicated setup. So having this fairly accurate is more important to me, but I generally care about trends only. I do have a CO2 meter too though since this has the single biggest impact on my PH parameter in my opinion.
Coming back to the probes
, and referencing these being hobby grade: Chris Meckley / ACI Aquaculture uses the device below (which I also have). I just realized this has a different probe which cost slightly more, but is made for this device (apparantly). It's application does not strike me as a low quality hobby grade device, but I am sure there is more expensive equipment to measure PH. I am also using this CO2 meter:
I don't consider that a hobby grade device. In fact, Milwaukee is known for many of their lab grade devices. I would view yours as an entry level lab grade probe.
Does yours require the probe to be stored in pH storage solution. I'm assuming that it does.
If money was no option, I would look specifically for a lab grade probe kits from Oakton. I use them extensively for my work. They hold calibration very well. You can visually see calibration drift in percentage on the screen.
derek_SR
Supporting Member
This is interesting. I believe the reason I care mainly/only about PH (and temp) on a daily basis is because I decided to go with the most basic APEX set up (not an APEX fan). If you have more data points, such as Alk levels etc, you leverage all of this to come to a conclusion if there is a problem with the tank that needs fixing, and not only PH. I found though that ‘just’ looking at PH gives me the peace of mind I need (or triggers actions) without needing a more complicated setup. So having this fairly accurate is more important to me, but I generally care about trends only. I do have a CO2 meter too though since this has the single biggest impact on my PH parameter in my opinion.
Coming back to the probes
I am also using this CO2 meter:
I have come really close to buying that Milwaukee unit several times to feel better about the instrument I use - but every time I talk myself out of it and remind myself to just worry less about PH, since (in my case) feeling good about an exact PH value probably isn't going to drive any meaningful action on my part - outside of maybe convincing me to go back to kalk which I don't wanna do
. I understand your reasoning though, and do agree PH is important generally speaking.I use the exact same CO2 monitor. Mine reads a little high (I take it outside occasionally to check its calibration) but it's been pretty good otherwise.
Great...now you guys have convinced me to have to get a CO2 meter. Thanks a lot fellas...
Haaa haaa
Also...it does appear that my alkalinity is dropping consistently everyday. By the time my water change comes around, I'm hovering around 7.0. The way I see it, it's another reason to get my kalk dosing figured out so it's not spiking after every WC
derek_SR
Supporting Member
Crank up the kalk!
I do water changes every 3 weeks - and let my alk slowly fall over the course of this period. My salt usually mixes in the 9ish range (or higher, depending on what I have) and always boosts alk up after a WC. Mine goes from 8.5ish to 7.5ish over the course of 3 weeks.
Yeah...that's the plan. I just haven't plugged in my dosage parameters into the doser yet. Just keep putting it off. LOL
The past couple weeks have been very annoying... after a recent update on my phone, my forum controls are so screwed up. Everything is grayed out and not working.
Makes getting on here...even more cumbersome.
That annoyance is nothing compared to being completely gut punched and discouraged with this crap...
Been battling what I could only assume is an explosion of red cyanobacteria. Everything was humming along nicely and then something just went off and I haven't been able to control it since. I've tried two doses of ChemiClean and water changesso far. With the third dose today. It's still hanging around unfortunately. It's seems like it hasn't even phased it. I've turned the lights to all blue the past week too.
It's already killed coral and in the process of killing more. I'm noticing a fair amount of feather duster worms have died too. I was accustomed to seeing the glass panes full of copepods. Now, those are nowhere to be seen too. I've been trying to blow off any of the slime at least 2-3 times per day in an attempt to keep it in suspension to get into the filters.
Before baster blow off
After baster blow off
I'm not sure what I've done to cause such a drastic imbalance in my system. For me, the biggest bummer is that the frags I had planned for the swap, are goners. The SPS that was doing good and thriving...dying or dead at this point. So incredibly disappointing to see things going well to have this happen so damn fast.
The only thing I can think of that changed recently is my nitrates and phosphates were super low. So I fed with a healthy portion of reef roids and mysis a few times a couple weeks ago. So potentially got a spike of phosphates...but it didn't last if it did do that because every time I have checked I get back either a non-detect or 0.1 reading
Current parameters:
Salinity 34.8 (calibrated)
Alk 8.3 (Hanna)
pH 8.02 - 8.1 (calibrated)
Nitrate 5-10 (20 at the most - API kit)
Phosphate 0.10 (Hanna)
I could use any and all advice on how to get rid of this quickly.
Makes getting on here...even more cumbersome.
That annoyance is nothing compared to being completely gut punched and discouraged with this crap...
Been battling what I could only assume is an explosion of red cyanobacteria. Everything was humming along nicely and then something just went off and I haven't been able to control it since. I've tried two doses of ChemiClean and water changesso far. With the third dose today. It's still hanging around unfortunately. It's seems like it hasn't even phased it. I've turned the lights to all blue the past week too.
It's already killed coral and in the process of killing more. I'm noticing a fair amount of feather duster worms have died too. I was accustomed to seeing the glass panes full of copepods. Now, those are nowhere to be seen too. I've been trying to blow off any of the slime at least 2-3 times per day in an attempt to keep it in suspension to get into the filters.
Before baster blow off
After baster blow off
I'm not sure what I've done to cause such a drastic imbalance in my system. For me, the biggest bummer is that the frags I had planned for the swap, are goners. The SPS that was doing good and thriving...dying or dead at this point. So incredibly disappointing to see things going well to have this happen so damn fast.
The only thing I can think of that changed recently is my nitrates and phosphates were super low. So I fed with a healthy portion of reef roids and mysis a few times a couple weeks ago. So potentially got a spike of phosphates...but it didn't last if it did do that because every time I have checked I get back either a non-detect or 0.1 reading
Current parameters:
Salinity 34.8 (calibrated)
Alk 8.3 (Hanna)
pH 8.02 - 8.1 (calibrated)
Nitrate 5-10 (20 at the most - API kit)
Phosphate 0.10 (Hanna)
I could use any and all advice on how to get rid of this quickly.
derek_SR
Supporting Member
Oof. Looks like Dino’s to me…almost certain. Do you have a microscope? A positive ID can help with plan of attack. My guess is probably ostreopsis, in which case a UV is the fastest and most certain method to clear them up.
Does it clear up after lights out, and come back after lights go on?
Does it clear up after lights out, and come back after lights go on?
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humble.fish
No real microscope, but I have a cheapo USB style type I can try to find.
I haven't noticed it clear up except when I dose with the ChemiClean and start blowing it off the rocks and corals. Then it seems to come right back within 48hrs. I'll check out the link you sent. Thanks
Also, let's assume it is this species...How would I get UV effectively installed into this type of tank? I believe I could order the IM specific model, but is there another option I could attempt to use?
Oh damn! That's what it was. Thanks!
1 less annoyance in my life!
Anybody care to tell me how to figure out the annoyance of a 20yo? And an 18yo!
Daymn. You bottomed your numbers out. Dinos. You need a microscope that will get down to 400x. Then go on Mack’s Dino on fb. Then they will tell you what kind you have. Then you can treat it. Otherwise your going in blind.