Firefish died, clown acting weird

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by Nav, May 1, 2014.

  1. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    My firefish had ick attack a few days ago and it had been showing signs on and off... I thought he was getting better (spots were reducing) but he died today :( I fed them well too!

    Now I saw a snail dead and also my clown acting weird. He was sleeping 90deg on sand for a while (I thought he died too) and now kinda hiding behind a rock in the dark...

    Ammonia 0 and Nitrates at 10. I don't have a quarantine.

    Some recent history:

    - been moving coral around my tank a few times and disturbed sand bed a bit

    - been seeing a bit of diatoms on some of my rock (CUC taking care of it)

    - installed a new Kessil A350W yesterday

    - 40% water change done 4 days ago

    Anything wrong? Pls advise. Thx
  2. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Source of fish? Quarantine.
  3. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Source? Got it from LFS, been in my tank for more than a month... I don't have a quarantine tank.
  4. bluprntguy

    bluprntguy Webmaster

    Your clown has ich. You'll need to take him out and treat him with copper or chloroquine phosphate in a separate tank. Your main tank needs to remain fallow (without ANY fish) for 6 weeks MINIMUM to allow the ich to die.

    I have a hospital tank set-up if you need someplace for him quickly.
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  5. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Not all LFS are created equal but regardless, what bpg said ^^
  6. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Been hot out lately, temp stable?
  7. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

    Nitrite is lethal.
    And fire fish are very fragile
  8. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    I read increasing temperature will get rid of ick faster so set tank to 80-81 when I saw first signs of ick (actually the # of spots reduced)

    Last two days it has been 78-79.
  9. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Nitrite 0 too, I thought Firefish are hardy!
  10. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Great, thanks for offering. I'll PM you if I see any signs of stress again.
  11. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Guest

    You read something that was wrong, WAY wrong. Ick can not be cured by increasing the temperature. If you had fish with ick in the tank, then it's pretty much a given that ick is in the tank in some stage of it's life. Just because fish don't show signs doesn't mean it's not there, sometimes they can fight it off. But it's not like a virus or a bacteria where they'll get immunities to it, it's a parasite, one that will keep going through it's life cycle and reinfect the fish over time. Also note any fish you put in there in the future will also have a good chance to catch the parasite.

    If you want to stop this cycle, remove the fish, treat them for the disease, leave the tank fallow to let the whole life cycle die out.
    bluprntguy likes this.
  12. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    I'm going to move to a 40B or something bigger in the next two months.

    Does ick host shrimp, hermits or snails? Do they pass on via coral?

    I'm thinking in my new tank (after cycling), I'll first get the coral and inverts for a few weeks (fallow) so even if ick comes in, it doesn't have a host. Then quarantine the fish, cure them and then move...

    Hope this is a good plan?
  13. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Have any of you tried this food? I've read mixed review of it curing ick...

  14. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    It looks like you have been misinformed on ich.
    VERY common. There is a lot of wishful thinking on the net, and companies
    selling nearly useless products taking advantage of that.

    There are 3 + 1/2 known cures for ich.
    NO treatments are coral safe. Sorry, but that is the unfortunate truth.

    The 1/2 part is "time, good water quality, and good feeding"
    Basically, let the fish immune system take care of it. No treatment.
    (Foods hat help them eat may fall under that category)
    A not-unreasonable strategy.
    Treatment is far from fool-proof. And it can be tricky to keep water quality high in QT tanks.
    The fatality rate is not hugely different.

    The other 3:
    Copper (Cupramine)
    And Chloroquine Phosphate (although there are skeptics on that out there)

    Nitrates of 10 are pretty high if you measured that after a big water change.
    Suggest a few more water changes.
    Nav likes this.
  15. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Thanks everyone for the advise.

    I take it that Dr. Gs is not a good idea?

    I'll continue doing water changes and feed my clowns well.
  16. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    That Dr. Gs is Chloroquine phosphate.
    Which is good, because it means it may actually help kill ich.
    However, it also claims it is reef safe.
    Which does not make sense, unless the dosage is very low.
    But if the dosage is low, it will not do much.
    Perhaps because it is ingested that makes up for it?

    So rather hard to say.
    The Chloroquine phosphate medication is really pretty new. Only seen in the last few years.
    So time will tell on products like these.

    If someone really does find a good reef-safe cure, they are going to make some serious money!!
    Nav likes this.
  17. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

    The problem I have with feeding medication is there is no way to know how much medication the fish have actually taken. When dosing the water it's easy to calculate an effective dose.

    To add to Mark's list of cures...
    Tank transfer is also a proven cure. If you only have a few small fish you can do this with two 5g buckets. Nice thing is it uses no medications.

    There is a great section of Reef Central on diseases and their treatment. Discussion of all the above methods is extensive!
    Nav likes this.
  18. bluprntguy

    bluprntguy Webmaster

    I think calling this a 1/2 is generous if not dangerous. Ich isn't a big deal in the nature because a fish will normally just be exposed a few of them at a time. In nature, a vast majority of ich die before they are able to find a host. In our closed systems, the ich have no other choices for hosts other than the fish in the tank and the fish are relatively easy prey in our overstocked tanks. An ich infestation in an aquarium can go from a few bumps to hundreds of the buggers on a single fish in a few hours.

    Fish don't build up an immunity to ich. Ever. There are more than enough studies that prove this. What happens in an ich infested tank is that the DNA of the ich breaks down over time. One study found this took 11 months. The fish in our tanks didn't ask to be put in an enclosed system. It's not difficult or expensive to treat ich. Sitting back and watching ich take it's course is irresponsible and will more often than not end with a dead fish at some point over the next year. You may have success for a week, or a few months, but eventually it's most likely going to end badly.

    The Dr. G's food is based on some success that a public aquarium had with using Chloroquine Phosphate bound in food. It's difficult to monitor how much food each fish is consuming and it can kill corals and invetebrates if they consume the food. It's probably best labeled as "sort of reef safe".

    A 5-10 gallon tank, heater, and HOB filter can be had for less than $50, maybe less. I have two of them in my garage that I'd give away. Chloroquine Phosphate can be found for a few bucks. It's really not hard to take a fish out of the display tank, move it to a hospital tank, and treat it properly. None of our local stores quarantine their new arrivals (at least none that I know of), so all their livestock are potentially exposed to any number of diseases from the constantly rotating stock of fish. You are going to need a quarantine system eventually. Best to start doing things correctly now, or you'll have constant battles (that aren't much fun) in this hobby.
    Coral reefer and Nav like this.
  19. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    I take it that ick can only host fish (not inverts or coral)?
  20. bluprntguy

    bluprntguy Webmaster

    I guess technically the fish are the hosts for ich. But yes, inverts and corals aren't affected. Once you remove the fish, the ich will starve and die after a couple of months. Then it's safe to return fish to the aquarium. Here is a good simple to read and accurate article on ich:

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