Jestersix

Phosphate question...

iCon

Supporting Member
Can high levels of phosphates cause a coral die off/rtn without everything in the tank first turning brown?
 
Why? What is the process? I'm drilling vented screws for my vacuum chamber here at work and need some diversion... Help.
 
Gah...another lesson learned I suppose. I pushed the limits with bioload and am paying the price. It's ok...I was getting tired of the birdsnest in my tank anyways. :~ Strange, but glad my acros are doing quite well. Instead of trying to trap/catch fish, it looks like I'll just take the whole thing apart and swap tanks. It needed to be done anyway due to this one having a cracked brace.

Speaking of acros.. I picked up this completely browned out piece from an old timer. Turned dark minty green (if there is such a thing) and has blue/purple tips. Kinda cool. He told me the name but I forgot since it was brown at the time. Ideas on ID?
 
houser said:
Why? What is the process? I'm drilling vented screws for my vacuum chamber here at work and need some diversion... Help.
I was curious as well, always wanting to know the science behind these things.
So while waiting for formal verification of a netlist against source Verilog (two can complain), I looked around a bit.
I found the more usual explanation - added phosphates cause more nuisance Algae growth, crowding out Coral.
But no direct cause. Seems like the symbiotic algae in coral should like extra phosphates.
There are certainly lots of reports of it causing problems even with the lack of visible algae issues. So must be some reason.
 
rygh said:
houser said:
Why? What is the process? I'm drilling vented screws for my vacuum chamber here at work and need some diversion... Help.
So while waiting for formal verification of a netlist against source Verilog (two can complain), I looked around a bit.

generating bitstreams generally means quick stop on internet. That and a million other reasons to be honest.
 
houser said:
Why? What is the process? I'm drilling vented screws for my vacuum chamber here at work and need some diversion... Help.

Calcification is inhibited along with it being toxic, basically it shuts the coral down.
 
tuberider said:
houser said:
Why? What is the process? I'm drilling vented screws for my vacuum chamber here at work and need some diversion... Help.

Calcification is inhibited along with it being toxic, basically it shuts the coral down.

This^^^

like an old timer once told me "If it ain't growing, it's dying". Not true in all respects but there is a grain of truth to be had with it.
 
tuberider said:
Calcification is inhibited along with it being toxic, basically it shuts the coral down.

On an amusing note: Phosphate increases calcification in people.

(high phosphate diet / kidneys, different thing of course)
 
rygh said:
tuberider said:
Calcification is inhibited along with it being toxic, basically it shuts the coral down.

On an amusing note: Phosphate increases calcification in people.

(high phosphate diet / kidneys, different thing of course)

Where is that cited? Phosphate is needed for bone development but at imbalanced levels can cause hypocalcemia, robbing the body of its calcium via bone resorption. Its often seen in patients with kidney disease hence the reason why we have drugs like renagel, renvela, phoslo, and fosrenol.

Eventhough it may be needed, I wouldnt say it increases calcification. Believe me, if all biological processes involved in the human body applied to our tanks id be the first to dose vitamin d, growth hormone, and calcium to grow a colony from a frag overnight. :D
 
GreshamH said:
tuberider said:
houser said:
Why? What is the process? I'm drilling vented screws for my vacuum chamber here at work and need some diversion... Help.

Calcification is inhibited along with it being toxic, basically it shuts the coral down.

This^^^

like an old timer once told me "If it ain't growing, it's dying". Not true in all respects but there is a grain of truth to be had with it.
and that my friend, is why after we stopped growing taller, we starting growing outward. I hate dying. I love food. Sounds like a good combo to me :-D
 
finalphaze987 said:
rygh said:
tuberider said:
Calcification is inhibited along with it being toxic, basically it shuts the coral down.

On an amusing note: Phosphate increases calcification in people.

(high phosphate diet / kidneys, different thing of course)

Where is that cited? Phosphate is needed for bone development but at imbalanced levels can cause hypocalcemia, robbing the body of its calcium via bone resorption. Its often seen in patients with kidney disease hence the reason why we have drugs like renagel, renvela, phoslo, and fosrenol.

Eventhough it may be needed, I wouldnt say it increases calcification. Believe me, if all biological processes involved in the human body applied to our tanks id be the first to dose vitamin d, growth hormone, and calcium to grow a colony from a frag overnight. :D

Yep, look into studies on folks that drink a ton of soda, the body gets all confused and thinks phosphate is calcium, strange. Very similar to metabolic bone disease in reptiles.
 
Looks like it was answered.
But simply google (excess phosphate kidney calcification) if you want to read the various studies.
 
a couple years ago there was an OTC laxative (fleet phospho soda) comprised of NaPO4 and Na2PO4 used for bowel prep in surgical procedures and colonoscopys. It was pulled from the market by the FDA due to it being linked to the cause of acute renal neuropathy. Irriversable damage to the kidneys would be caused by CaPO4 deposits.

these deposits were caused by phosphate PRICIPITATION (think kidney stones). Similar cases can be seen in people with high intake of soda on a regular basis (as mentioned by Jeremy) Bones became brittle due to inadequate calcification during bone turnover. Most Ca was lost in serum concentrations and deposited in renal tubules. If anything, one of many notable for increasing bone calcification would be vitamin D.

My third year in pharmacy school i took special interest in the medications developed to treat this, especially Fosrenol (lanthium carbonate). As we know, lanthium chloride is a widly used PO4 reducer used in aquaria today.

I always looked for ways to link clinical knowledge to my tank every chance i got. In the end, i found it difficult due to the fact that bone is primarily CaPo4 and coral is CaCO3. I helped a few peers of mine from ACSM (american College of Sports Medicine) write a few articles on the topic published on mayoclinic, webMD, livestrong.com, and kaiser drug education coordination articles a few years back.
 
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