Cali Kid Corals

Testing for Chloramine

sendo

sendo

Guest
BARcard
I was reading about Chloramine recently and was wondering if anyone tests for it to tell if the carbon blocks are spent. Any experiences out there?
 
I don't test for it but I've been thinking I should be. I just put a new membrane in my R/O unit and I know that the chloramines will eat it up rather quickly if you don't use the right carbon blocks and GAC in your pre-filters. I started using the chloramine specific replacement filter sets from BRS when I realized that the regular carbon blocks don't take care of the chloramines. It doesn't do you any good if the blocks and/or GAC is spent though :)

I found a kit at The Filter Guys:
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/test_kits.htm

Assuming it's good for multiple tests that sounds like a reasonable price to test your filters and maximize filter cartridge/GAC efficiency and membrane life to boot.

I was also looking at one the the FM-2 filter monitors that will tell me how many gallons I have on the filters. That in conjunction with testing chloramines looked like the best bet to me. I would imagine that the cost would be recouped over a year or so, if not sooner, by not having to guess when to replace the filters and extending the life on the R/O membrane.

~Charlie
 
Hey Charlie, I was thinking about getting one of those FM-2 monitors as well, if you get one you'll have to let us know what you think.

Are you using the Catalytic Activated Carbon or the Chlorplus block? The chlorplus block is supposed to be good for 2500g or 5000 if used with the CAC. if you're only getting 4:1 waste:RO, then you only get 500 usable gallons of RO/DI out of a block. Kinda low :(. I know RO membranes work best at higher pressure, but I don't remember if this just affects the rejection rate or the waste ratio. Personally my house exceeds the maximum on the pressure gauge, so I installed a pressure regulator to drop it below the recommended 90psi. I imagine many, in the east bay at least, must be getting similar pressures, so we might be getting better ratios or rejection rates.
 
Do you guys think the chlorine tests for pools would work, or are they not sensitive enough? Prefer to pick up locally if possible.
 
But do pool test kits test chloramine or just free chlorine? I'll check with the pool supply shop down the road and see what they say.
 
Just called and the guy was a little confused on chloramines. I'll have to go down there and read the packaging on the test kits and see if they will test for it or not.
 
I believe that a useful test kit would need to have a range between 0 to 5 ppm, and have good resolution on the low end.

Randy Holmes-Farley recommends the Hach CN-70 chlorine test (total and free chlorine). This kit tests from 0 to 3.4 ppm, but may be overkill for what we want to accomplish.
 
I read that article and was wondering if the test kit would really save me enough $ in carbon filters to justify spending $65. I guess my real question is, would it be better just to change the carbon every 6 months and not worry about it or try and test?
 
Maybe one of the monitors like piper suggested, at least you would have an idea how much water was flowing through your system.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/ro-di-accessories/fm-2-filter-monitor-with-volumizer.html
 
The unknown is how much chloramine you have in your water source at any given time, ours fluctuates here, and just how much damage it really does to your membrane. Googling around has me even more confused now :) It sounds like chloramines don't really have that much of an effect on Filmtec membranes.

The thing I do notice is that I'm burning through my DI resin. I'll go through a 10" canister of resin ever three months or so. I think that is a sign that my resin is pulling out the ammonia that is caused by spent GAC and a used up ChlorPlus block from what I read.

That alone would be worth the cost of an inexpensive test kit. But if it's ammonia that is burning up the DI resin why could you not test the water coming out of the membrane prior to entering the DI for ammonia? I would think that would also be a signal to replace the carbon.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/water-chemistry/chloramine-vs-di-resin-your-ro-di-filter-74201.html
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1735402

Note that I just skimmed through these. Too lazy to read through them completely tonight.

~Charlie
 
Hey Charlie,

Thanks for the links. If I read the following correctly

"Activated carbon will break the chloramine bond and remove the chlorine component leaving free ammonia (NH3+)."

Sounds like even if the Carbon is doing its job, you would still get a positive ammonia reading. If ammonia does use up DI resin, we may just be stuck. Am I making this harder than it needs to be?
 
I don't think you're making this harder than it needs to be. I think you raise a very good point in fact. I thought I read that it doesn't fully break down the chloramine once it's spent. Either that or if you use both the GAC and a ChlorPlus block (or equivalent) it will take care of the NH3+ as well. It was late and I was skimming more than reading though :)

I'll read more tonight when I get home and see if I can make more sense out of it. I found another web site that had more info on the GAC and chloramines.

~Charlie
 
Piper said:
The unknown is how much chloramine you have in your water source at any given time, ours fluctuates here, and just how much damage it really does to your membrane. Googling around has me even more confused now :) It sounds like chloramines don't really have that much of an effect on Filmtec membranes.

The thing I do notice is that I'm burning through my DI resin. I'll go through a 10" canister of resin ever three months or so. I think that is a sign that my resin is pulling out the ammonia that is caused by spent GAC and a used up ChlorPlus block from what I read.

That alone would be worth the cost of an inexpensive test kit. But if it's ammonia that is burning up the DI resin why could you not test the water coming out of the membrane prior to entering the DI for ammonia? I would think that would also be a signal to replace the carbon.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/water-chemistry/chloramine-vs-di-resin-your-ro-di-filter-74201.html
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1735402

Note that I just skimmed through these. Too lazy to read through them completely tonight.

~Charlie
Click to expand...
Interesting. Seems chlorine is actually worse for the membrane than chloramine.

I agree, the easiest way to see if your carbon filters are still breaking down chloramine should be to test the water before the DI resin, and see if it has high ammonia. If you notice the ammonia levels dropping, it should mean chloramine is no longer being broken down. Of course that doesn't solve the fast DI exhaustion from the free ammonia. Perhaps those NH2Cl blaster carbon filters might be worth it if they both break down the chloramine and remove both the chlorine and ammonia molecules before the RO/DI.

Price isn't too bad http://www.aquariumwaterfilters.com/shop-by-product?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=44&product_id=33

Also from their website:

AquaFX said:
Many of you have used and are using our “Chloramine Blaster” system. The Blaster system uses a specialized carbon material that has had electron configuration change made to it, making it a much better catalyst. The “C” is important in the reaction and the
reaction takes place in stages. Therefore contact time with the bed has got to be increased from that which was needed with a GAC filter for “chlorine” removal.

Aqua Engineering has found using two 10-inch cartridges provides a substantial reduction of chloramine. To date, this has not failed on systems up to 300 GPD. Nothing close to these results have been achieved with any other carbons.

Up until recently DI seemed the only solution, because Nitrogen easily passes through a membrane (rejecting as little as 40%) the DI canisters were being exhausted very quickly. DI’s that were lasting 500 gallons before exhausting, prior to the chloramine disinfection,
were now lasting only 200 gallons, post chloramine addition. The drawback to using DI is the cost. DI in conjunction with the “Chloramine Blaster” will last 2 to 10 times longer, depending on the initial water chemistry.

The Chloramine Blaster does need a little special care; the filter must be soaked for 24 hours prior to use. If this is not done the catalytic properties will not be realized until the 24 hours have past. There should also be a test port after the 2 filters, chlorine can be
tested for easily and the presence of chlorine indicates the filters need to be changed. Another important property of this material is it’s long life. The “Chloramine Blaster” will far out live the traditional carbons, making the additional cost disappear due to the less frequent carbon changes.
Click to expand...
 
And from SFwater.org:

SFwater said:
Q: Can charcoal filters remove chloramine?
A: Charcoal or granular activated carbon (GAC) filter can reduce chloramine concentrations of 1 to 2 mg/L to less than 0.1 mg/L. The GAC filter may be followed by a reverse osmosis (RO) filter to remove the carbon fines. RO should not be used alone as chloramine will pass through the membrane and may damage the RO membrane elements (some RO units are resistant to chlorine and chloramine). A GAC filter will remove chloramine, allowing RO to effectively remove other constituents.

Q: Are GAC filters certified and if so by whom?
A: As a public agency, the SFPUC does not test, endorse or recommend specific water filtration products. Contact the NSF International, a nonprofit organization that independently tests and certifies drinking water filtration products. Website: NSF International, phone: 800-673-8010.
The removal of chloramine is not necessary from a public health perspective; however, some customers may chose to remove either chlorine or chloramine for drinking purposes. Several units are certified and listed on the NSF International website http://www.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/ (accessed August 2010) for the removal of chloramine: smaller units certified at flows below 1 gpm (service cycle from 300 to 1600 gal) are appropriate for drinking water applications at a kitchen faucet, larger units certified at 5 gpm (service cycle from 15,000 to 84,000 gal) could be used for other uses if desired. NSF International verifies claims of 85% chloramine removal of 3mg/L. GAC filters, if desired, need to be installed on the kitchen sink cold water tap as filter effectiveness decreases in warm or hot water. The removal of disinfectant from the water may increase the potential of bacterial regrowth in plumbing.
Click to expand...
 
http://www.aquariumwaterfilters.com/shop-by-product?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=67&category_id=37

AquaFX said:
The NH2CL (Chloramine) blaster works effectively only when run in series to allow enough contact time with the water...
Click to expand...

It sounds like contact time with the GAC is the key here so they are recommending you run two GACs in series. I'm using GAC loosely here as I'm not sure if there is anything magical with their Chloramine Blaster product. I'm still unclear on weather or not we actually need to test for chlorine though. If if the GAC starting to go then you should be seeing ammonia if you test after the GAC and prior to the DI media. Most of us have test kits for ammonia handy I would think. What has me questioning this is if the GAC is completely spent are you no longer breaking down the chloramines at all hence no ammonia?

It also looks like a chlorine test kit from your local pool supply house that test total chlorine and not just free chlorine should do the trick. The question here is if the kits test in the appropriate range that we're looking for.

~Charlie
 
Well I ran a test on tap a while back and there was Ammonia, though I don't remember how much. I guess you would have to start by testing everything with new filters and then see how it changes over time. I can't really tell either if the Chloramine Blaster is anything other than catalytic GAC, but from what I can tell, the catalytic part seems to be what's important.
 
Not_Now_John said:
Well I ran a test on tap a while back and there was Ammonia, though I don't remember how much. I guess you would have to start by testing everything with new filters and then see how it changes over time. I can't really tell either if the Chloramine Blaster is anything other than catalytic GAC, but from what I can tell, the catalytic part seems to be what's important.
Click to expand...

Chloramines mess with ammonia test kits and give false readings.
 
Piper said:
The unknown is how much chloramine you have in your water source at any given time, ours fluctuates here, and just how much damage it really does to your membrane. Googling around has me even more confused now :) It sounds like chloramines don't really have that much of an effect on Filmtec membranes.

The thing I do notice is that I'm burning through my DI resin. I'll go through a 10" canister of resin ever three months or so. I think that is a sign that my resin is pulling out the ammonia that is caused by spent GAC and a used up ChlorPlus block from what I read.

That alone would be worth the cost of an inexpensive test kit. But if it's ammonia that is burning up the DI resin why could you not test the water coming out of the membrane prior to entering the DI for ammonia? I would think that would also be a signal to replace the carbon.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/water-chemistry/chloramine-vs-di-resin-your-ro-di-filter-74201.html
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1735402

Note that I just skimmed through these. Too lazy to read through them completely tonight.

~Charlie
Click to expand...

Low Ph burns DI much faster. To save DI, it is best to make a blow off chamber between your RO and your DI. It's basically a container that is aerated to remove the Co2. It does require a pump to get the water through the DI though.
 
Not_Now_John said:
Maybe one of the monitors like piper suggested, at least you would have an idea how much water was flowing through your system.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/reverse-osmosis-filters-and-systems/ro-di-accessories/fm-2-filter-monitor-with-volumizer.html
Click to expand...


I've tried those, they are not all that accurate. I ditched mine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top