Reef nutrition

DBTC: Walt Disney

Mike Yasin

Supporting Member
Questions for my own edification, as I have several open DBTCs and caring for a couple from others as well.

1) Should the subsequent frags from a recipient follow the originators rules?
2) Should the subsequent frags give preference to those already on the list?
3) Or is / are the DBTC recipient('s) free to make their own rules for any frags they cut?

(I'm on the list, but passed because I ended up buying one prior to John reaching out)
 

JVU

Vice President
BOD
John reached out to me and asked similar questions recently. I can share the gist of what I told him my understanding is:

1. As far as I know this has not been specifically discussed/decided by the Board, because this specific issue of detailed and restrictive rules on who is eligible to receive frags in a DBTC, and such a DBTC reaching the second generation, are new issues.

2. Generally speaking, it is expected that subsequent rounds of a DBTC will more or less be following the rules of the DBTC, like for example giving 2 frags back before doing anything else with them.

3. It has always been completely up to the person giving out an individual frag to decide to whom to give it. So in the second generation, it would be up to the person who grew the frag up and made more frags available, not the person who originated the chain, to pick a person.

So obviously we now have an unexpected and brand-new potential conflict between originator rules that specify who should be eligible for a frag, and the ability of subsequent members to decide who should get them. I can see reasonable points of view on both sides, so probably will need further discussion.

@Coral reefer is the DBTC chair.
 

JVU

Vice President
BOD
Also I think it is worth taking a moment to be thankful that we now actually have DBTC’s of high-end coral that have reached the second-generation of recipients being able to give back to the chain. Most of our normal DBTC chains don’t even reach the second generation. That is no small feat, and is pretty awesome and encouraging actually.
 

Mike Yasin

Supporting Member
I would say the person giving a frag definitely decides who to give it to, but they should really try to find someone who fits the criteria laid out by the original chain starter.
I don't have a problem with it, but my goal of putting into DBTC is survival of the coral, and hence, I would be, and am, pretty specific on who can qualify. I see some distribution to folks without tank journals, and some relatively new tanks, too. not ideal homes for some high ends.... just my opinion.
 

Coral reefer

DBTC Officer
BOD
I don't have a problem with it, but my goal of putting into DBTC is survival of the coral, and hence, I would be, and am, pretty specific on who can qualify. I see some distribution to folks without tank journals, and some relatively new tanks, too. not ideal homes for some high ends.... just my opinion.
I must have missed something. I thought you were asking how you should handle giving out frags. Please contact me if there are issues you see. I’ve been too busy lately too be on as much, but would like to be alerted to potential issues that need attention.
 

NanoCrazed

Supporting Member
@JVU @Coral reefer -- I always thought as a DBTC rule, the originator dictates the rules for the chain... and everyone the. follows should adhere to the original rules. Otherwise, why are we posting rules that shouldn't be honored past a generation? Ultimately, the primary goal is for originator to get back up plan should theirs fail and have some reassurance that there might be some chance to recover a frag... secondary is folks in club benefiting from being able to grace their tanks with said DBTC pieces..
 

Coral reefer

DBTC Officer
BOD
@JVU @Coral reefer -- I always thought as a DBTC rule, the originator dictates the rules for the chain... and everyone the. follows should adhere to the original rules. Otherwise, why are we posting rules that shouldn't be honored past a generation? Ultimately, the primary goal is for originator to get back up plan should theirs fail and have some reassurance that there might be some chance to recover a frag... secondary is folks in club benefiting from being able to grace their tanks with said DBTC pieces..
Yep. Rules are rules.
 

Mike Yasin

Supporting Member
Yep. Rules are rules.
I must have missed something. I thought you were asking how you should handle giving out frags. Please contact me if there are issues you see. I’ve been too busy lately too be on as much, but would like to be alerted to potential issues that need attention.

I mainly care about the survival of the coral, and that's why some DBTCers choose to post some pretty stiff rules.

Getting in on a DBTC should be a benefit of showing that one has the capacity to care for the animal and having had demonstrable success with it's particular species. Posting tank journals, participating in the discussion, and offering insight to others come to mind as criteria, as does following the rules of the original chain. This is a process and takes time, plus it gives other members the ability to get to know you and your tank, and assess whether you're a good fit for participating and caring for the animal. That's way more than just a virtue of having a few posts and a current paid membership.
 

Coral reefer

DBTC Officer
BOD
I mainly care about the survival of the coral, and that's why some DBTCers choose to post some pretty stiff rules.

Getting in on a DBTC should be a benefit of showing that one has the capacity to care for the animal and having had demonstrable success with it's particular species. Posting tank journals, participating in the discussion, and offering insight to others come to mind as criteria, as does following the rules of the original chain. This is a process and takes time, plus it gives other members the ability to get to know you and your tank, and assess whether you're a good fit for participating and caring for the animal. That's way more than just a virtue of having a few posts and a current paid membership.
I agree with you I think
 

JVU

Vice President
BOD
@JVU @Coral reefer -- I always thought as a DBTC rule, the originator dictates the rules for the chain... and everyone the. follows should adhere to the original rules. Otherwise, why are we posting rules that shouldn't be honored past a generation? Ultimately, the primary goal is for originator to get back up plan should theirs fail and have some reassurance that there might be some chance to recover a frag... secondary is folks in club benefiting from being able to grace their tanks with said DBTC pieces..
Like I said in the post above, what we have here is a bit of a conflict of 2 of our rules- That subsequent generations should follow the rules of the DBTC, and that the person with the frag in hand picks who they will give it to. Those are both good rules on their own, but can be in conflict if the rules of the DBTC are specific enough to exclude some members, and the next person gives it to someone who would have been excluded by the originator. This was a purely theoretical issue until now, since this is the first time a DBTC with very specific restrictive rules has reached the second generation.
 

Mike Yasin

Supporting Member
Like I said in the post above, what we have here is a bit of a conflict of 2 of our rules- That subsequent generations should follow the rules of the DBTC, and that the person with the frag in hand picks who they will give it to. Those are both good rules on their own, but can be in conflict if the rules of the DBTC are specific enough to exclude some members, and the next person gives it to someone who would have been excluded by the originator. This was a purely theoretical issue until now, since this is the first time a DBTC with very specific restrictive rules has reached the second generation.
Definitely think there should be some base standards around Dbtc. especially clarifying basic requirements for participation - beyond just a current member. And when/how the line gets jumped from those already in the original queue. I think some preference to those folks needs to be given for the subsequent frags. I mean, the line could be 10 deep, and shouldn’t be the responsibility of the Dbtc originactor to meet that demand.
 

The_Lazy_Reefer

Public Relations
BOD
I’m guessing this in reference to me so I’ll just be honest. I’ve been swamped with all the tank moves and the frags were in my garage tank which was having some power issues. They were healed for 2 weeks so I figured I’d pass them out incase something tragic happened. @musclebenz was only one of a few to hit me up for it and he has been a member for super long so I just rolled with it. The rest of the Disney’s handed out(sold) we’re from my own colony and has no bearing on @jhuynh DBTC. There is still 1 frag of this Disney available as well.
 

The_Lazy_Reefer

Public Relations
BOD
Update now I remember I did give a frag to @nihard but he was the only one to want the DBTC and the original frag is going super strong so I can make more shortly so I didn’t look deep into if he “should” get it or not since nobody else spoke up.
 

The_Lazy_Reefer

Public Relations
BOD
The fragged parts have already healed over. I’ll make 2 more once the tank move settles down.
 

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