Kessil

Home prep for tank. Need sanity checks and advice.

I feel like this thread is off in the rabbit holes.

Make sure you have good airflow in the cabinet, and good air circulation in the room. Then any modern hvac unit will work fine. AC units pull air from inside the house, so external humidity shouldn't be a concern. If you are concerned with extreme heat/corner cases, get the full house battery and solar. All can be set up with notifications, and heat waves aren't usually a surprise.

I also don't think a chiller is needed if the tank is being run inside a house with AC. I thought a lot about adding one and when things get really hot here, I turn the ac to 80, and point a fan at the water surface. The tank rarely gets over 81 with that.

Where do you live, ie do you get fog banks rolling in with year round temps in the 70's, or are you in the flats where we see 105 deg days? That determines your design and build plan. I see Albany, so near the water, which provides some thermal regulation.

albany ca weather year round - Google Search

www.google.com

The high is 75 year round, you definitely don't need a chiller.

Nix the 3d printed pan and take whatever inside of the stand you want waterproofed and use shower pan liner. You are basically making a shower drain, copy what is done there in houses.

Electrical, you want the outlets either in an electronic cabinet behind the tank with a pass through under the cabinet for wires, or you want the outlets above the sump height in the cabinet. I used 8 outlets on a separate 20 amp circuit and never had any issues.

Also, think about joining the club with a supporting membership. Best $30 you can spend in the hobby.
 
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If your remodel is big enough, upgrading the whole system does normally make sense at some point. The split system only make sense to a point or if your home doesn’t have any place for ducting, like an Eichler style home. How many rooms are you redoing on this remodel? Are you going to continue gas heating with the traditional AC?

Can’t wait to see the remodel. send pix, they are always a work of Art ;-). Shame on you for letting membership expire.
 
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H2OPlayar said:
I feel like this thread is off in the rabbit holes.

Make sure you have good airflow in the cabinet, and good air circulation in the room. Then any modern hvac unit will work fine. AC units pull air from inside the house, so external humidity shouldn't be a concern. If you are concerned with extreme heat/corner cases, get the full house battery and solar. All can be set up with notifications, and heat waves aren't usually a surprise.

I also don't think a chiller is needed if the tank is being run inside a house with AC. I thought a lot about adding one and when things get really hot here, I turn the ac to 80, and point a fan at the water surface. The tank rarely gets over 81 with that.

Where do you live, ie do you get fog banks rolling in with year round temps in the 70's, or are you in the flats where we see 105 deg days? That determines your design and build plan. I see Albany, so near the water, which provides some thermal regulation.

albany ca weather year round - Google Search

www.google.com

The high is 75 year round, you definitely don't need a chiller.

Nix the 3d printed pan and take whatever inside of the stand you want waterproofed and use shower pan liner. You are basically making a shower drain, copy what is done there in houses.

Electrical, you want the outlets either in an electronic cabinet behind the tank with a pass through under the cabinet for wires, or you want the outlets above the sump height in the cabinet. I used 8 outlets on a separate 20 amp circuit and never had any issues.

Also, think about joining the club with a supporting membership. Best $30 you can spend in the hobby.
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Thanks for all your thoughts!

Chiller: I'm getting pretty set on having it. I know I can get away without it, but having consistency and not worrying about heat is going to be nice. It's built into my budget and I already run a 1/10hp chiller on my small tank so I'm used to having that luxury. But I get what you mean, it may not be super necessary. I think the warmest it got in the house this summer was 82 (house doesn't have any AC at the moment, and I wasn't home to turn on any fans etc). I also want a pretty minimal look from the outside, so I don't want fans setup on the tank either permanently or only when needed.

I'll look into shower pan liner! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

And yes, I totally missed renewing this year!
 
Qwiv said:
If your remodel is big enough, upgrading the whole system does normally make sense at some point. The split system only make sense to a point or if your home doesn’t have any place for ducting, like an Eichler style home. How many rooms are you redoing on this remodel? Are you going to continue gas heating with the traditional AC?

Can’t wait to see the remodel. send pix, they are always a work of Art ;-). Shame on you for letting membership expire.
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Yeah there's plenty of space for ducting (we have a crawl space under the house, so we have floor registers for the HVAC right now, which is just powered by a furnace). We're adding a primary suite which will be about 600 square feet addition, and then expanding the kitchen/living room by knocking down some walls, relocating a laundry room, and getting rid of a few "strange" storage closets.

The idea will be to use a traditional furnace + added A/C unit. The contractor is coming for a final plan next week.
 
kinetic said:
Chiller: I'm getting pretty set on having it. I know I can get away without it, but having consistency and not worrying about heat is going to be nice. It's built into my budget and I already run a 1/10hp chiller on my small tank so I'm used to having that luxury. But I get what you mean, it may not be super necessary. I think the warmest it got in the house this summer was 82 (house doesn't have any AC at the moment, and I wasn't home to turn on any fans etc). I also want a pretty minimal look from the outside, so I don't want fans setup on the tank either permanently or only when needed.
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Opinion: It’s not that having a chiller is a luxury most won’t splurge on, it’s that having a chiller is inferior because fans work better, don’t leak, don’t need much if any maintenance, and take up less space. They can easily be automated like a chiller is. But it sounds like aesthetics of the top of the tank takes priority here, and that’s fine too; everyone enjoys different things about the hobby.
kinetic said:
And yes, I totally missed renewing this year!
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There’s still time :)
 
kinetic said:
Thanks for all your thoughts!

Chiller: I'm getting pretty set on having it. I know I can get away without it, but having consistency and not worrying about heat is going to be nice. It's built into my budget and I already run a 1/10hp chiller on my small tank so I'm used to having that luxury. But I get what you mean, it may not be super necessary. I think the warmest it got in the house this summer was 82 (house doesn't have any AC at the moment, and I wasn't home to turn on any fans etc). I also want a pretty minimal look from the outside, so I don't want fans setup on the tank either permanently or only when needed.

I'll look into shower pan liner! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

And yes, I totally missed renewing this year!
Click to expand...

Fans can also be placed in the sump provided there is enough ventilation to handle the extra evaporation. Though it likely won’t be as effective because surface area is usually significantly less than the display tank.
 
JVU said:
Opinion: It’s not that having a chiller is a luxury most won’t splurge on, it’s that having a chiller is inferior because fans work better, don’t leak, don’t need much if any maintenance, and take up less space. They can easily be automated like a chiller is. But it sounds like aesthetics of the top of the tank takes priority here, and that’s fine too; everyone enjoys different things about the hobby.

There’s still time :)
Click to expand...

Yes, you're totally right. I think my priority is to not have the fans above the tank, so I will probably be going the way of a chiller.
 
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RandyC said:
Fans can also be placed in the sump provided there is enough ventilation to handle the extra evaporation. Though it likely won’t be as effective because surface area is usually significantly less than the display tank.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm guessing the sump won't have enough surface area. It'll probably be about 30" x 16", so not much there.
 
AND EVERYBODY LOOK! My "status" under my name has updated ;)

I found the auto-renew option this time, so it won't happen again haha. I'm always so happy to support this amazing club and will always do so as long as I have the means.
 
kinetic said:
Yeah, I'm guessing the sump won't have enough surface area. It'll probably be about 30" x 16", so not much there.
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It’ll probably cool more than you think. The key will be to make sure you remove the humidity from the sump cabinet as that will greatly affect the amount of evaporative cooling that can occur.
 
kinetic said:
Yeah, I'm guessing the sump won't have enough surface area. It'll probably be about 30" x 16", so not much there.
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The easy option is size your setup for the chiller, but then start with a (or multiple) fans. You can buy one of these for instance (they have models that are 1 to 4 fans):

51a7pPpl3PL._AC_SL1200_.jpg


That plus an exhaust fan on the stand near the sump I'd imagine could cover you.

Anecdotally I have the 2 fan version attached to a 3.5 gallon sump on a 10gallon main, and it can drop the tank 6 degrees F. Very different setup than yours, but just as a reference. I'm DIY'ing a setup on my main 40gallon using a couple similar fans and a 24v power supply.

I was even thinking of sneaking one into the display by changing my mesh lid to have a slot I can mount a fan in the corner. I think I could hide the fan if I did that, and wouldn't need to worry about venting the cabinet. Alternatively I might try and get two smaller ones and sneak them into an overflow cover.
 
richiev said:
The easy option is size your setup for the chiller, but then start with a (or multiple) fans. You can buy one of these for instance (they have models that are 1 to 4 fans):

View attachment 39812

That plus an exhaust fan on the stand near the sump I'd imagine could cover you.

Anecdotally I have the 2 fan version attached to a 3.5 gallon sump on a 10gallon main, and it can drop the tank 6 degrees F. Very different setup than yours, but just as a reference. I'm DIY'ing a setup on my main 40gallon using a couple similar fans and a 24v power supply.

I was even thinking of sneaking one into the display by changing my mesh lid to have a slot I can mount a fan in the corner. I think I could hide the fan if I did that, and wouldn't need to worry about venting the cabinet. Alternatively I might try and get two smaller ones and sneak them into an overflow cover.
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He is going Peninsula so that adds the same challenge as all your power heads on one side. PS, I have a extra 2 fan version of that thing you can have if you need it.
 
kinetic said:
Yeah, I'm guessing the sump won't have enough surface area. It'll probably be about 30" x 16", so not much there.
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That is plenty of surface area. A small fan like above pointed directly across the sump water surface will cool your tank way more than you are thinking and be $1k cheaper, simpler, and take up less space. Don't write off the evaporative cooling because chillers seem neat. They are a leak point and an overall pain in the tail end. A fan can be automated with the Inkbird thermostat for ~$40 I use and has been rock solid for me over the last 3 plus years.

Also, the tank hitting 82F a few times a year is nothing to worry about.
 
Do your thing, Art! Don't let form following function detour you from the aesthetics you wish for. You can make both happen. Looking forward to watching it unfold.

PS its been probably over 10 years but I am sure we traded some frags back in the day at All About Fish...
 
kinetic said:
Hanging Light
- I will have 2 ReeFi Uno LEDs hanging. They're REALLY light weight.
- Run a 2x4 piece of wood that's 48" long in the ceiling above the tank so I can mount or maybe just plywood across the top with the same footprint that's connected to the beams (what's best here?)
- Snake a long power cord extension from ceiling down the wall and out of a grommet (this will make a clean power cord, I could also just have an outlet in the ceiling since these lights are controlled via WiFi and not going to connect with my Apex)
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We also did this in the ceiling, but then pivoted and mounted the lights to a wall. If there is no wall nearby, then you have to hang. Wall mounted can be very clean.
 
For what it's worth, this is what the engineers put in for my 150g tank...
Screenshot_20220629-205907_Chrome.jpg

I think part of it is because of the span, but it's definitely beefy.
 
Looks like three fat LVL beams. That will definitely hold :oops:. I'm surprised they did that instead of just supporting something smaller with footings directly beneath the tank to support the span, but I'm no engineer.
 
So what I'm hearing is NOBODY is running a chiller here? Or are all the chiller folks not in this thread. Kind of surprising honestly. I never knew that fans were the way to go and always assumed it was more of a cost/reward thing. In this case, I'm budgeting for the ease and peace of mind, which obviously (to me) was a chiller, but from the looks of it, everyone seems to think I shouldn't run one. Am I getting that right? If cost wasn't an issue, and we're really just talking about aesthetics and efficiency of cooling, fans are better?

So far I'm understanding that I can probably do fine with a well ventilated stand with some fans over the sump. I would just control the fan with an outlet on the Apex Energy Bar so it'll just turn on when the water temp is high. OK, no big deal (I even have a fan I can already use).

But I can also just get a nice chiller, make sure it's ventilated and plumbed correctly. I've used a chiller for most of my reefing life, and I've never had any issues or headaches (maybe I've been lucky).
 
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