Jestersix

Tanks Alk consumption has increased 30% over the last 15 days

Blaise006

Supporting Member
Does anyone have pictures of the bicarb version of ESV? I assumed it would have been clearly labeled on the bottle if it was, but I can’t seem to find any pictures online.
 

Blaise006

Supporting Member
Took my CO2 scrubber offline last night to see what would happen.
So far to keep alk stable over the last 18ish hours it’s taken 38mls compared to 180 yesterday.

This got me thinking.

We know in my example that it was unlikely my corals were using 6 dkh when it’s mostly 20-30 sps frags.

I was unable to find precipitant in the usual spots.

Do you think it is possible while the CO2 scrubber is raising the PH of the tank generally, that the localized PH in the skimmer body is so high that there could have been abiotic precipitation in the skimmer and it is heading on up into the collection cup?

While I would like to keep PH above 8, do you think there are any solutions here?
My 125 in the garage which gets much less airflow ranges 8.1-8.2 day/night.

What could be generating additional CO2 that the other tank isn’t exposed to?

I would think ambient co2 would be higher in the garage where we work out. The only only thing I can think of is the ratio of livestock to water volume.

Would really like to hear your thoughts on some of this.
 

Coral reefer

DBTC Officer
BOD
Took my CO2 scrubber offline last night to see what would happen.
So far to keep alk stable over the last 18ish hours it’s taken 38mls compared to 180 yesterday.

This got me thinking.

We know in my example that it was unlikely my corals were using 6 dkh when it’s mostly 20-30 sps frags.

I was unable to find precipitant in the usual spots.

Do you think it is possible while the CO2 scrubber is raising the PH of the tank generally, that the localized PH in the skimmer body is so high that there could have been abiotic precipitation in the skimmer and it is heading on up into the collection cup?

While I would like to keep PH above 8, do you think there are any solutions here?
My 125 in the garage which gets much less airflow ranges 8.1-8.2 day/night.

What could be generating additional CO2 that the other tank isn’t exposed to?

I would think ambient co2 would be higher in the garage where we work out. The only only thing I can think of is the ratio of livestock to water volume.

Would really like to hear your thoughts on some of this.
I assume the co2 in house is higher due to it being more air tight and having more humans and possibly other animals in there.
I assume the garage is less air tight, so despite working out in there the air is mixed with outside more than in the house. Just a guess.
no clue on the ph being high in the skimmer causing stuff the precipitate. Seems like a good theory at least.
 

Blaise006

Supporting Member
I assume the co2 in house is higher due to it being more air tight and having more humans and possibly other animals in there.
I assume the garage is less air tight, so despite working out in there the air is mixed with outside more than in the house. Just a guess.
no clue on the ph being high in the skimmer causing stuff the precipitate. Seems like a good theory at least.
It’s been very strange. I have a feeling I’m going to loose a few frags this week. PH is in free fall right now. 8.2 at 7 and currently 8.04 right now. I suspect it will be 7.8 by the time I wake up. I am not sure why this tank is having these issues.
 

Blaise006

Supporting Member
It’s fell to 7.85 last night after ripping out the co2 scrubber.

Hasn’t been below 8 for about 9 months.

Side note: it’s not the Ph directly that I think will kill things although I think it is going to go lower tonight given the trend which is concerning. It’s the fact that Alk dosing has gone from 180mls to 60ish.
 
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H2OPlayar

Supporting Member
It’s fell to 7.85 last night after ripping out the co2 scrubber.

Hasn’t been below 8 for about 9 months.
With dosing soda ash, my tank runs naturally from 7.8ish to 8.1-2ish almost daily, so that swing doesn't worry me. I would think the corals should handle that. And it might be harsh to say to the corals, but if they can't handle that minor swing, they are too sensitive and will die at the next minor swing. (Don't tell them I said anything to hurt their feelings though, I still care about them :) )


Edit: from your edit, I would not worry too much about the ammount you are dosing, so long as it correlates to a stable dKh. My alk dosing has moved in the last 3 weeks from 180, down to 50, and now back up to 90. I think what casued this was my moving around the stony corals for the fragging event. Upset corals don't grow as fast and don't uptake alk as fast. As I have left things alone, consumption is growing again and I am back close to 100 mL/day
 
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JVU

Vice President
BOD
It’s fell to 7.85 last night after ripping out the co2 scrubber.

Hasn’t been below 8 for about 9 months.

Side note: it’s not the Ph directly that I think will kill things although I think it is going to go lower tonight given the trend which is concerning. It’s the fact that Alk dosing has gone from 180mls to 60ish.
I think that your super high level was mostly abiotic consumption as was discussed above extensively, and your new lower level is your correct biotic consumption level. In other words, I don’t think it is putting your corals at risk.
 

JVU

Vice President
BOD
Your pH level inside your skimmer was probably much higher than your tank-wide readings suggest. I think your theory that you were just precipitating and skimming out calcium carbonate is likely true. Do you see a difference in your skimmate or precipitation on the walls of the skimmer when you have the scrubber connected vs not?

Some things you could do to further look into this-

First, if you haven’t done so recently, recalibrate your pH probe. Amazing how it drifts with time. 0.3 error can result in a big difference in interpretation when troubleshooting.

Test the pH of the water in your skimmer compared to your tank with the scrubber on and off for 30 min.

Maybe not as easy to do, but test the Alk of the water coming out of your skimmer collected in a cup when the scrubber is on, vs your tank’s Alk.

Some people have the air intake for their skimmer split with a valve on the tube going to room air, to regulate how much of the air coming in is scrubbed vs not.
 

Blaise006

Supporting Member
I just wanted to let anyone that might read this looking for help that as soon as I hit a ratio of roughly 3 mg to 1 cal my daily consumption plummeted from 120mls to 60mls. Significantly reducing precipitation from what I can tell.

I started raising my magnesium 5 days ago very slowly and as soon as I hit 1360-1370 my daily Alk consumption reduced by half. I see no signs of coral stress and believe that somewhere in that ratio ball park is where I am going to maintain for the time being. I may tinker with adding the co2 scrubber back in the future.
 

Blaise006

Supporting Member
So I wanted to update this after attempting to use my CO2 scrubber under the higher magnesium environment. Spoiler. I regret turning the CO2 scrubber back on and I’m still recovering from it even after shutting it off.

The CO2 scrubber is anecdotally linked to the instability I experience as nothing else has changed. Worth noting that while tests kits show magnesium in the 1400-1420 range. My ICP results this month show it much higher at 1498.

I will just post the alk results and leave my interpretation to a minimum. My sps prior to turning the scrubber back on were looking very healthy and showing some of the best growth I have seen in the last 6 months. I turn the co2 scrubber on, start monitoring alk hourly to compensate for the increased demand. Over the next 24 hours things deteriorated.



Alk Results week prior.

C2F419D3-D859-4CE6-9871-2C715D65574E.png



Next picture, see if you can spot where the reactor was turned on. It began fluctuating .2 -.5 PER HOUR with little consistency so it was hard to counteract with the doser.

F1DDED8E-E89E-4195-BB71-93A2B6123DA2.png



I am going to try an air stone with the CO2 scrubber instead of in the skimmer. I think this lends support to my theory that the localized PH in the skimmer is getting too high because of the low supply of CO2 and this causing precipitation. Tank ph never gets above 8.4 with the scrubber attached. Naturally ranges 7.9-8.25 this week.

Either way, I am confident that under my specific scenario that the co2 scrubber with my skimmer has been a direct result of my precipitation issues in the past. I hope I can find a solution that will allow me to manage my PH in the 8.1-8.3 range.
 

JVU

Vice President
BOD
So I wanted to update this after attempting to use my CO2 scrubber under the higher magnesium environment. Spoiler. I regret turning the CO2 scrubber back on and I’m still recovering from it even after shutting it off.

The CO2 scrubber is anecdotally linked to the instability I experience as nothing else has changed. Worth noting that while tests kits show magnesium in the 1400-1420 range. My ICP results this month show it much higher at 1498.

I will just post the alk results and leave my interpretation to a minimum. My sps prior to turning the scrubber back on were looking very healthy and showing some of the best growth I have seen in the last 6 months. I turn the co2 scrubber on, start monitoring alk hourly to compensate for the increased demand. Over the next 24 hours things deteriorated.



Alk Results week prior.

C2F419D3-D859-4CE6-9871-2C715D65574E.png



Next picture, see if you can spot where the reactor was turned on. It began fluctuating .2 -.5 PER HOUR with little consistency so it was hard to counteract with the doser.

F1DDED8E-E89E-4195-BB71-93A2B6123DA2.png



I am going to try an air stone with the CO2 scrubber instead of in the skimmer. I think this lends support to my theory that the localized PH in the skimmer is getting too high because of the low supply of CO2 and this causing precipitation. Tank ph never gets above 8.4 with the scrubber attached. Naturally ranges 7.9-8.25 this week.

Either way, I am confident that under my specific scenario that the co2 scrubber with my skimmer has been a direct result of my precipitation issues in the past. I hope I can find a solution that will allow me to manage my PH in the 8.1-8.3 range.
pH of 7.9-8.25 is completely fine, is that the range without the scrubber? If so I wouldn’t bother with using it at all.
 

rygh

Treasurer
BOD
Stop chasing numbers. It will just drive you and your tank crazy.

Magnesium level makes a huge difference with Alk/Ca precipitation. I generally keep mine a bit higher than seawater level.

I run an airstone in the sump, with fresh air coming in. That did not change PH all that much, but it seems more stable.
 
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