DkH vs ALK ?

Discussion in 'Other Reef Talk' started by Reefdad, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. My girlfriend is a bartender at Temple here is SF drinks are on me!
  2. oh, gonna have to take u up on that sumtime. caution ive been known to drink like a fish (again, pun intended) ;)
  3. Lyn

    Lyn Guest

    Wow, I can't believe I read this whole thread...

    Finalphase and OTA, great advice. :D

    Elite, don't do it! ;D


    I am fairly new to BAR. At first, I used to think that some of the comments were rough around the edges, but the more I read, the more I realized that people were truly caring and willing to help if the recipient was honestly wanting to be helped. You will find that there are very intelligent and knowledgable people here (you may look up their tank threads. many of these tanks and their corals would be the envy of any public aquarium). Some do reef keeping for a living, others are based in the scientific community or have jobs which are science based, and others have been enthusiastically reefkeeping for multiple years-decades. The community here is tight, and sometimes they banter and tease good naturedly, but to those who don't know this, they may seem like attacks. I believe you felt attacked, but good science dictates that your statements are backed up with solid evidence, not hearsay. When a scientist presents a paper, it is subject to peer review, i.e. attacked at any weak point. Because you made claims that were beyond the norm, you were subject to a harsh peer review. It doesn't mean that your claims were wrong, just that in this knowledge seeking community, people want to know why and how you make your claims.

    I hope you do not judge these people by what you perceived were attacks on their part. I can honestly tell you that this is truly a very generous club. People like to have fun, and we share a common bond and goal in reefkeeping.

    BTW, even if you did not like some of the challenges put to you, it did spur you on to find out more information, which in turn educated you and us since you posted some interesting articles. Knowledge is gained when we don't know something, not when we already know it all. :D
  4. nicely put Lyn! Im Japanese and Irish deadly combination when it comes to drinking :D :D

    We could have BAR night out.. hehe Pun!!!
  5. love the puns...after i drink i just mellow out. i like to chill and play darts!
  6. i didnt mind the questions, that makes sense. curious u ask, but u dont ask sarcastically. as far as im concerned, its over with. water under a bridge.
  7. Good to hear! have a good night!
  8. this insomnia is killin me. i wuld love to sleep, but dont see it happening again tonight.
  9. Thales

    Thales Past President

    [quote author=reefermadness link=topic=6538.msg84370#msg84370 date=1235554013]
    i didnt mind the questions, that makes sense. curious u ask, but u dont ask sarcastically. as far as im concerned, its over with. water under a bridge.

    Part of what you are are experiencing has to do with the internet shorthand you are using. If you look around this site, you won't see any of it and it rubs people the wrong way and tends to make people not take you seriously. It makes people feel that your posts are sarcastic and that you don't care enough to take the time to put together a well reasoned post. You may not feel that way, but it is a perception that is going to stand.
    Another part is not being able to back up claims - like these are my levels, but I don't have a test kit. If you say something like that, expect to be taken to task and rightfully so, as off the cuff reasoning often results in animal deaths from new reefers that read about it. Many in this club are very wary and worried when people phrase opinion as fact, and ever more so when fact is claimed from a position of authority.

    If you want to let the ismoketrees stuff go, I think you should remove it from your sig. Keeping it there is pretty much the opposite of letting it go. :D

    I sure hope you don't take any of that as sarcastic.

    As to the levels of alk - many of the oldtimers that have been keeping it at 12-14 dkh have lowered it and seem to have seen general improvement and less RTN/STN. IMO, the best success on the alk front is to have stability regardless of level.
  10. ...noted. thanks. <---no sarcasm, truly (as sarcastic as that sounds, im being honest)
  11. seminolecpa

    seminolecpa Past President

    So Reefdad in case you are still following your thread that has kind of been hijacked, the answer to your question is on page 3 :) .

    [quote author=tuberider link=topic=6538.msg84164#msg84164 date=1235529207]
    Each drop of an API kit =1 degree carbonate hardness, wait for your tank to stabilize you might be surprised to see your alk drop to a more acceptable level.
  12. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=reefermadness link=topic=6538.msg84244#msg84244 date=1235538021]
    1st. i call a project like a trip. it was a project in a sense for me. you think a school would pay for students from OC to fly to the red sea for a project when we have catalina where u can dive right off our coast? i went to observe how to make my tanks more similar to real life, as far as speed of flow, placement in the reef, water movement and species.

    2nd. when i did test i would test every day, 2x a day for many months. you start to learn at what intervals you must dose. give water loss, and water changes based on what levels your premix or NSW are. i keep my levels between those areas. since i just moved up here i have no access to testing anymore, but i know they maintain between those areas. am i 100% it isnt more or less than than those numbers? not 100% but pretty darn sure (98%, im never 100% confident of anything anymore).

    as far as doolittle...ooops...had no idea. wuz totally just playing.

    is it me or does it seem like im being attacked by a pack of hungry wolves in here?

    so, im just gonna go back to my hole....climb in and get comfy until this blows over...

    Just a piece of advice, you have come on the forums and run around telling everyone who has proven to the forums through long standing good advice that they are wrong and you have all the answers, I woun't so much feel attacked, but more the board is making sure everyone reading realizes everything your saying is mearly YOUR opition, and your not even doing the base stuff like providing links and or pics of your tank and it's amazing growth.
  13. zambavi

    zambavi Guest

    Hey Reefdad... How long has your tank been cycling? You should start a Tank Journal to post and track your tanks progress. You'll get a lot of good feedback along the way.
  14. well roc, im havin a friend come take pictures. im buying a test kit, and ill start taking a more careful approach to it. im not trying to say anyone is wrong. i`m doing what has been working for me, and your right, it wont work for everyone, not should everyone try it. sometimes when you try out new things its because of a hunch, and not necessarily based on any written evidence. i wish i had some way to show, but i dont. so for the time being, im gonna drop out of this conversation until i can show some very hard evidence that proves what i am saying. i never tried to say anyone else is wrong, per say, just that i felt what i have seen in my experience is different that what most people experience. weird, yes. different, oh ya. wrong?, no. just a different approach to a common issue of what alkalinity to use.

    oh, and yes. sorry for this hijack, in no way was that intentional. give me some time to compile my research and ild love to have a positive discussion examining my approach, but i realize that without much proof, such a discussion could not work. but i am anxious for the day that it will.

    and reefdad, good luck with the new tank. there is no doubt that if you have a question, someone on here will be able to successfully answer it.
  15. drdoolittle

    drdoolittle Guest

    Good Man.. as long as we learned something out it it. Its always good.

    I learned from your link..
    Also, we invite you to start a BAR tank Journal as well. This will document all your failures and success to share with fellow members.
  16. glad to know all my typing didnt fall on blind eyes... if you can learn something everyday, then everyday is a good day.

    once i get some photos i might just begin to do that. wouldnt be a bad place to journal it
  17. Reefdad

    Reefdad Guest

    So back to my problem :) now my dkh has dropped to 15 down 5 points. I have been running carbon and the skimmer is is producing. Would that have lowered it.
  18. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    [quote author=Reefdad link=topic=6538.msg84863#msg84863 date=1235699415]
    So back to my problem :) now my dkh has dropped to 15 down 5 points. I have been running carbon and the skimmer is is producing. Would that have lowered it.

    I find in new tanks, sometimes, the Alk will be sky high, especially when using unrinsed aragonite. It takes a while for things to settle for some odd reason, I've speculated that it could be microscopic particles of aragonite flawing the test, but that's all I can come up with.

    Example, I set up a very large reef around Christmas time, dumped in water, and two buckets of Coralife salt (I didn't buy it :p), Coralife has pretty low Alk straight out of the bucket ~7 dKH. Threw in a few pumps to mix the salt into solution and came back the next day to add the sand. Came in the next day and found the tank to be pleasantly clear, tested the Alk and it was at 16 dKH, WTF? I then finised all of the filtration and wiring and walked away for a week to let things settle in. Tested the Alk and found it had dropped to 8 dKH, I hadn't changed a thing. This is not an isolated occurrence either, at least IME.
  19. Thales

    Thales Past President

    Not isolated at all. Its part of the suite of issues I like to call New Tank™
  20. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    [quote author=Thales link=topic=6538.msg84878#msg84878 date=1235703219]
    Not isolated at all. Its part of the suite of issues I like to call New Tank™

    Care to come and speak to the club on your trademark issue, I have a sweet frag of green slimer for you for your trouble :D

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