WYSIWYG SPS Coral Colonies

Topic: Ethical Considerations and Coral Loss Rate

Hey everyone,
Many members feel strongly about the ethics of reefkeeping, and it’s sparked some great discussion. Let’s bring this to the next BOD meeting for open conversation and a vote.

Focus:
The main focus will be what happens from Retail to Members — how corals are handled, sold, and cared for once they reach hobbyists.
Understanding the full process also helps us see where stress and losses occur.

Coral Journey (for context):
1️⃣ Mariculture & Export (Indonesia)
2️⃣ Air Export & Transport
3️⃣ U.S. Import & Inspection
4️⃣ Wholesale Distribution
5️⃣ Retail → Member Tanks

Goals:
• Understand coral movement and loss points
• Focus on welfare at the retail and hobbyist level
• Build shared awareness and accountability
• Record discussion and BOD vote for transparency
 
THIS ENTIRE HOBBY IS A ETHICAL DELUSION. Completely gray! Who still brings in and sells Horseshoe Crabs?

Our side (Hobbist side) is the unethical side of the aisle. Should we be putting these living animals to absolute early death at a much higher rate than in the wild? The logical answer is no. But our natural greed is what plays in our bias to make this simple decision. We want more we need the unnecessary more more, more. We place dollar amounts on these living animals and that’s where everything gets worse.

That is what this discussion is truly about MONEY not ethics or morals we are choosing to put the cost or LIABILITY(Ethics?) on others simply to make more MONEY or spend less MONEY. In an open marketplace supply/demand and the highest bidder or lowest bidder depending rules all, ethics take a back seat. BAR is not an open marketplace we have the ability to change its landscape to what we would like to see.

I’ve taken place in a few group buys on here and would likely again. I’m on the fence about all of this unfortunately I see both sides of the grass.

Transparency is key in everything.

One thing that really keeps giving me the ick is when our BOD says I’m taking my BOD hat off or this is my opinion and not the BOD. The hat never comes off! Your opinions directly affect your decision making. You are making decisions for BAR and its members based on your own biases. So your opinion is the BOD opinion be it one of many.

Great discussion non the less! LOL
 
fishy408 said:
Hey everyone,
Many members feel strongly about the ethics of reefkeeping, and it’s sparked some great discussion. Let’s bring this to the next BOD meeting for open conversation and a vote.
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Agreed, great discussion, but I'll be surprised if members show up for a BOD meeting. I've been on the last two meetings and it was myself and 1 other member lol
 
SupraSaltyReefer said:
Agreed, great discussion, but I'll be surprised if members show up for a BOD meeting. I've been on the last two meetings and it was myself and 1 other member lol
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I tried to find out when the next BOD meeting will be and what the subject of discussion will be, but couldn't find it under Club Business. Does anyone know where it is?
 
DaddyHook said:
THIS ENTIRE HOBBY IS A ETHICAL DELUSION. Completely gray! Who still brings in and sells Horseshoe Crabs?

Our side (Hobbist side) is the unethical side of the aisle. Should we be putting these living animals to absolute early death at a much higher rate than in the wild? The logical answer is no. But our natural greed is what plays in our bias to make this simple decision. We want more we need the unnecessary more more, more. We place dollar amounts on these living animals and that’s where everything gets worse.

That is what this discussion is truly about MONEY not ethics or morals we are choosing to put the cost or LIABILITY(Ethics?) on others simply to make more MONEY or spend less MONEY. In an open marketplace supply/demand and the highest bidder or lowest bidder depending rules all, ethics take a back seat. BAR is not an open marketplace we have the ability to change its landscape to what we would like to see.

I’ve taken place in a few group buys on here and would likely again. I’m on the fence about all of this unfortunately I see both sides of the grass.

Transparency is key in everything.

One thing that really keeps giving me the ick is when our BOD says I’m taking my BOD hat off or this is my opinion and not the BOD. The hat never comes off! Your opinions directly affect your decision making. You are making decisions for BAR and its members based on your own biases. So your opinion is the BOD opinion be it one of many.

Great discussion non the less! LOL
Click to expand...

The point of me saying "BOD hat off" is to indicate that my opinions are not necessarily the same as other members of the BOD. We are a group of individuals and don't always have the same opinion or the same vision on these topics, and my comment is an effort to be clear about that.

You are absolutely correct that my personal opinions DO directly affect my decisions and comments within the context of BAR business - that's kind of the whole point of joining. I want to be able to influence the future of the club.

Edit - fixed it for ya
 
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derek_SR said:
The point of me saying "BOD hat off" is to indicate that my opinions are not necessarily the same as other members of the BOD. We are a group of individuals and don't always have the same opinion or the same vision on these topics, and my comment is an effort to be clear about that.

You are absolutely correct that my personal opinions DO directly affect my decisions and comments within the context of BAR business - that's kind of the whole point of joining. I want to be able to influence the future of the club
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So you are or are not BOD? Cause your opinion on here is as a BOD not just Derek did you take off your cool BOD badge when you made that comment you don’t get to pick and choose when it’s for bod or not your in there for a year!
 
As far as BOD meeting. They are posted in advance. I see them all the time.
You guy do know that you can sit in on all the meetings and make yourself heard. Michael B use to sit in all the time and voice his opinions even when he wasn’t BOD.
You will be heard and all your comments, thoughts will have weight.
So it’s not like you have to be BOD to guild the club. I hope to see more people sit in on future meetings.
 
derek_SR said:
The point of me saying "BOD hat off" is to indicate that my opinions are not necessarily the same as other members of the BOD. We are a group of individuals and don't always have the same opinion or the same vision on these topics, and my comment is an effort to be clear about that.

You are absolutely correct that my personal opinions DO directly affect my decisions and comments within the context of BAR business - that's kind of the whole point of joining. I want to be able to influence the future of the club.
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Maybe you missed the last sentence in my statement. But you basically said what I said. It just seems you guys put more effort in arguing about the same old thing then taking our members thoughts and concerns in to consideration before you guys rush in to each others aid deflecting blame on others. And it always seems to be the same BOD members. Hence the name “BoYS Club” you guys tend to get labeled with.
 
derek_SR said:
The point of me saying "BOD hat off" is to indicate that my opinions are not necessarily the same as other members of the BOD. We are a group of individuals and don't always have the same opinion or the same vision on these topics, and my comment is an effort to be clear about that.

You are absolutely correct that my personal opinions DO directly affect my decisions and comments within the context of BAR business - that's kind of the whole point of joining. I want to be able to influence the future of the club.

Edit - fixed it for ya
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So you’re saying you as a BOD has the ability to influence the club but the members don’t? Please elaborate on that
 
Let's get another Feedback Form up and running then! I know we've done one before, I think it would be fairly simple to reopen the form.

DaddyHook said:
open all the BOD chats
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I'm not BOD but I imagine that there would be privacy concerns. For example if a situation where personal details or specific member is being talked about
 
DaddyHook said:
Maybe you missed the last sentence in my statement. But you basically said what I said. It just seems you guys put more effort in arguing about the same old thing then taking our members thoughts and concerns in to consideration before you guys rush in to each others aid deflecting blame on others. And it always seems to be the same BOD members. Hence the name “BoYS Club” you guys tend to get labeled with.
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This seems incredibly unfair.
The BOD is a volunteer group that spends significant time and resources orgnizing the club and related events for a hobby group. Anyone can run to be on the BOD, but few do.
The people on the BOD work their butts off, and really don't deserve this kind of stuff.
DaddyHook said:
Using BOD as we run the club is a the ongoing struggle the BOD never seem to understand drives people away.
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I am not sure what the frist half of that means, but it has always been the case that people think they know what is driving other people, yet somehow they tend not to be on the BOD. The BOD always understands quite a bit about what drives people away, but it all really depends on what the current BOD is trying to do.

DaddyHook said:
Can I see the bylaws where our opinions only matter if we attend the BOD meeting. This was the point I made last time with the ultra committee.
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Check the bylaws and see what you are looking for is there. I don't think it is, but you can check. Your opinons matter, and decisions get made at meetings.
That said, don't confusing your opinions being not implimented with your opinions not mattering. The BOD listens to what people say, and then makes the decisions they think best, which is their role.

DaddyHook said:
Cause if it’s about ethics then open all the BOD chats for public view and only allow for BOD to be able to post in them.
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No way IMO. The BOD needs to be able to discuss things plainly and privately. If you want to be in the room where it happens, join the BOD. The BOD hasn't even really addressed this yet, so maybe relax and give them time to do what they are doing.


If anyone doesn't like what the BOD is doing, feel free to join the BOD or start a new club - that is how this one was started.
 
tribbitt said:
Let's get another Feedback Form up and running then! I know we've done one before, I think it would be fairly simple to reopen the form.


I'm not BOD but I imagine that there would be privacy concerns. For example if a situation where personal details or specific member is being talked about
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what privacy concerns? That’s called not being transparent? HIPAA doesn’t apply here.
 
tribbitt said:
Let's say someone's getting harassed, reports to BOD, and BOD needs to discuss it. It's pretty unacceptable for details of that to be released in my opinion
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Great point. But that would be a different situation completely and would need to start as a private message. And is beyond the scope of basic bar business.
 
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