sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
That cost $300??? :O Man I'm sticking with SC40 screw the "dark grey" look
Corals B 4 Bills 225 Lee Mar Starfire Inwall tank
- Thread starter corals b 4 bills
- Start date
corals b 4 bills
Guest
Yea tell me about it, but I have to stare at the same plumbing for the next 15-20 years! So I figured since I save up $1,000 of cash jobs this month (That my wife doesn't know about) I might as well go the whole nine yards and make it look purdy.
Dygone has my frag tank hood, yesterday I bought a 250 watt ballast, Next week I should have my Ice cap 660 and end caps, the only thing left to buy is the aluminum track for the light rack and I'm done with the hunting/gathering aspect of the build. (Oh yea I forgot the remote track raising gizmo-cabobber ;D).
Dygone has my frag tank hood, yesterday I bought a 250 watt ballast, Next week I should have my Ice cap 660 and end caps, the only thing left to buy is the aluminum track for the light rack and I'm done with the hunting/gathering aspect of the build. (Oh yea I forgot the remote track raising gizmo-cabobber ;D).
Roc
Guest
So from I see, and the experts can chime in that wouldn't be the flooded drain plumbling.
here was a diagram I did for mine
And here it was built
Notice how there are 2 drains, and one is slightly shorter then the other, it was my understanding that this was a "flooded drainpipe" design.
here was a diagram I did for mine
And here it was built
Notice how there are 2 drains, and one is slightly shorter then the other, it was my understanding that this was a "flooded drainpipe" design.
corals b 4 bills
Guest
Thank's rock, I asuume that the ball valve is under the tank to slow the flow? I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind.
1. How far below the over flow teeth is the tallest of the pipes?
2. How much lower is the first pipe from the second pipe?
3. Would you think the second pipe would be thought of as an emergency redundent over flow?
4. Do you have both pipes running into one under the stand? (mine are two seperate 1 1/2" going to the sump or does this defeat the purpose?).
If you can answer me back as so I don't miss something I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank's
Mark
1. How far below the over flow teeth is the tallest of the pipes?
2. How much lower is the first pipe from the second pipe?
3. Would you think the second pipe would be thought of as an emergency redundent over flow?
4. Do you have both pipes running into one under the stand? (mine are two seperate 1 1/2" going to the sump or does this defeat the purpose?).
If you can answer me back as so I don't miss something I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank's
Mark
Roc
Guest
Here are my answers:
Thank's rock, I asuume that the ball valve is under the tank to slow the flow? Yes I actually installed ball valves on both drains and my return, in case I ever wanted to changed out the plulbing underneath, but I would say you must have one on the lower of the two pipes so you can adjust the amount of water and keep it at the level of the taller pipe, (make sense?)
1. How far below the over flow teeth is the tallest of the pipes? About 3 inches but basisicly i was told to have it about 1 inch below however you can see my return got in the way.
2. How much lower is the first pipe from the second pipe? About 1 inch
3. Would you think the second pipe would be thought of as an emergency redundent over flow? Basicly when it works right the taller pipe takes about 3-5% of the total flow, in my case it goes directly to my fuge, the lower pipe take 97-95% of the flow and drains directly to my skimmer housing chamber. In my set-up both the fuge and skimmer housing empty into the same return pump chamber but A LOT more water comes from the skimmer side.
4. Do you have both pipes running into one under the stand? (mine are two seperate 1 1/2" going to the sump).See above but there are 2 pipes
Pic is worth 1000 words
Thank's rock, I asuume that the ball valve is under the tank to slow the flow? Yes I actually installed ball valves on both drains and my return, in case I ever wanted to changed out the plulbing underneath, but I would say you must have one on the lower of the two pipes so you can adjust the amount of water and keep it at the level of the taller pipe, (make sense?)
1. How far below the over flow teeth is the tallest of the pipes? About 3 inches but basisicly i was told to have it about 1 inch below however you can see my return got in the way.
2. How much lower is the first pipe from the second pipe? About 1 inch
3. Would you think the second pipe would be thought of as an emergency redundent over flow? Basicly when it works right the taller pipe takes about 3-5% of the total flow, in my case it goes directly to my fuge, the lower pipe take 97-95% of the flow and drains directly to my skimmer housing chamber. In my set-up both the fuge and skimmer housing empty into the same return pump chamber but A LOT more water comes from the skimmer side.
4. Do you have both pipes running into one under the stand? (mine are two seperate 1 1/2" going to the sump).See above but there are 2 pipes
Pic is worth 1000 words
corals b 4 bills
Guest
Thank you again, I think Im ready to cut and paste! 
, I just don't want to make a mistake with shedule 80 fittings.
BTW is the center compartment your fuge? and do you have any current pics of your sump area in action?
Thank's
Mark
, I just don't want to make a mistake with shedule 80 fittings.BTW is the center compartment your fuge? and do you have any current pics of your sump area in action?
Thank's
Mark
corals b 4 bills
Guest
How much do you want for both of the valves? Thank's
corals b 4 bills
Guest
Thank you I will.................Try and stop me. ;D
Roc
Guest
[quote author=corals b 4 bills link=topic=3677.msg51416#msg51416 date=1218154788]
Thank you again, I think Im ready to cut and paste!, I just don't want to make a mistake with shedule 80 fittings.
BTW is the center compartment your fuge? and do you have any current pics of your sump area in action?
Thank's
Mark
[/quote]
Left side is fuge, drain to that side is 3/4" PVC and is connected to the taller of the 2 drain pipes, gets about 4% of the drained water.
Middle is the return pump chamber, gets water from both sides but fuge area is slightly baffled to ristrict flow out of fuge.
Right side is main drain 1" PVC and is connected to shorter drain pipe it gets about 96% of drained water. This chamber houses my Skimmer and heater and has a bubble trap set up for water entering return chamber.
and a pic
Thank you again, I think Im ready to cut and paste!
, I just don't want to make a mistake with shedule 80 fittings.BTW is the center compartment your fuge? and do you have any current pics of your sump area in action?
Thank's
Mark
[/quote]
Left side is fuge, drain to that side is 3/4" PVC and is connected to the taller of the 2 drain pipes, gets about 4% of the drained water.
Middle is the return pump chamber, gets water from both sides but fuge area is slightly baffled to ristrict flow out of fuge.
Right side is main drain 1" PVC and is connected to shorter drain pipe it gets about 96% of drained water. This chamber houses my Skimmer and heater and has a bubble trap set up for water entering return chamber.
and a pic
corals b 4 bills
Guest
Good job everything looks really clean all around! I like Maple for stands too, my kitchen cabinets are Maple and being a hardwood flooring contractor for 25 years Iv'e installed plenty of it, Birds eye, Flamed, you name it. If you or anyone else needs exotic materials fairly cheap let me know, Iv'e made alot of stuff out of flooring material because it comes in widths of 2 1/4" through 8" and lengths up to 8 ft. 5/16" thick up to 3/4". Oak, Mohagany, Maple, Cherry and the list goes on.
BTW I also have a Professional Pocket Hole Cutter, the machine that makes face frames for cabinets.
BTW I also have a Professional Pocket Hole Cutter, the machine that makes face frames for cabinets.
Roc
Guest
[quote author=corals b 4 bills link=topic=3677.msg51491#msg51491 date=1218213317]
Good job everything looks really clean all around! I like Maple for stands too, my kitchen cabinets are Maple and being a hardwood flooring contractor for 25 years Iv'e installed plenty of it, Birds eye, Flamed, you name it. If you or anyone else needs exotic materials fairly cheap let me know, Iv'e made alot of stuff out of flooring material because it comes in widths of 2 1/4" through 8" and lengths up to 8 ft. 5/16" thick up to 3/4". Oak, Mohagany, Maple, Cherry and the list goes on.
BTW I also have a Professional Pocket Hole Cutter, the machine that makes face frames for cabinets.
[/quote]
Wish I woulda known that before i bought all the wood to build that cabinet........LOL
Oh and thanks I try my best, it cerently looks a lot better then my last tank stand
Good job everything looks really clean all around! I like Maple for stands too, my kitchen cabinets are Maple and being a hardwood flooring contractor for 25 years Iv'e installed plenty of it, Birds eye, Flamed, you name it. If you or anyone else needs exotic materials fairly cheap let me know, Iv'e made alot of stuff out of flooring material because it comes in widths of 2 1/4" through 8" and lengths up to 8 ft. 5/16" thick up to 3/4". Oak, Mohagany, Maple, Cherry and the list goes on.
BTW I also have a Professional Pocket Hole Cutter, the machine that makes face frames for cabinets.
[/quote]
Wish I woulda known that before i bought all the wood to build that cabinet........LOL
Oh and thanks I try my best, it cerently looks a lot better then my last tank stand
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Only issue I have with Roc's setup (and I realize you're not asking for critique, but to pass onto CB4B) is the ball valves on the drains from the tank. Completely unnecessary and you are asking for disaster if you try to restrict the drains at all, unless it somehow tees off so you're only restricting one direction of the tee.
Roc
Guest
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=3677.msg51527#msg51527 date=1218219649]
Only issue I have with Roc's setup (and I realize you're not asking for critique, but to pass onto CB4B) is the ball valves on the drains from the tank. Completely unnecessary and you are asking for disaster if you try to restrict the drains at all, unless it somehow tees off so you're only restricting one direction of the tee.
[/quote]
What would the issue be with resticting the drain? I currently have the drain to the fuge all the way open but in order to get the correct amount of flow (i.e. only 95 percent) the main drain is slightly restricted.
Only issue I have with Roc's setup (and I realize you're not asking for critique, but to pass onto CB4B) is the ball valves on the drains from the tank. Completely unnecessary and you are asking for disaster if you try to restrict the drains at all, unless it somehow tees off so you're only restricting one direction of the tee.
[/quote]
What would the issue be with resticting the drain? I currently have the drain to the fuge all the way open but in order to get the correct amount of flow (i.e. only 95 percent) the main drain is slightly restricted.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
The fact you have two drains it's not too much of an issue, but all you need is a little something clogging one drain (or worse both) then your "correct amount" becomes too small, and depending upon your setup that could cause an overflow. I've seen it many MANY times with people restricting drains because it was too loud, rather than doing a proper standpipe.
Why does the main drain have any restriction at all though? I can understand a fuge having a restriction because you don't want as much water going through, but the mian sump drain shouldn't be restricted. If there's too much water going into the tank from the return, tee off your return and put a valve on the tee to restrict how much water goes into the tank, but not your returns. As I said unsure what you mean by "correct amount" but if you're trying to match your drains to your pump you're in for a major headache down the road.
Two philosophies of mine involving drains. 1) Over side for the job, don't match to your pump, be able to handle 2 or 3 of those pumps worth of water (usually that involves 1.5" piping). 2) Have a backup that's not used at all, if it's not used it can't get clogged, you simply have it a tad higher than your main drain pipe so if that does get clogged the backup can kick in as the water level rises.
Again not trying to give you crap here Roc, just since Mark is hooking his up a little advice to throw his way (unfortunately via you). What I would have done with your setup, obviously larger drain pipe, unless of course your return pump is tiny, is to tee off that return, one to the sump one to the refugium, with a ball on the refuge side only.
Why does the main drain have any restriction at all though? I can understand a fuge having a restriction because you don't want as much water going through, but the mian sump drain shouldn't be restricted. If there's too much water going into the tank from the return, tee off your return and put a valve on the tee to restrict how much water goes into the tank, but not your returns. As I said unsure what you mean by "correct amount" but if you're trying to match your drains to your pump you're in for a major headache down the road.
Two philosophies of mine involving drains. 1) Over side for the job, don't match to your pump, be able to handle 2 or 3 of those pumps worth of water (usually that involves 1.5" piping). 2) Have a backup that's not used at all, if it's not used it can't get clogged, you simply have it a tad higher than your main drain pipe so if that does get clogged the backup can kick in as the water level rises.
Again not trying to give you crap here Roc, just since Mark is hooking his up a little advice to throw his way (unfortunately via you
). What I would have done with your setup, obviously larger drain pipe, unless of course your return pump is tiny, is to tee off that return, one to the sump one to the refugium, with a ball on the refuge side only.
pixelpixi
Guest
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=3677.msg51529#msg51529 date=1218220870]
The fact you have two drains it's not too much of an issue, but all you need is a little something clogging one drain (or worse both) then your "correct amount" becomes too small, and depending upon your setup that could cause an overflow. I've seen it many MANY times with people restricting drains because it was too loud, rather than doing a proper standpipe.
Why does the main drain have any restriction at all though? I can understand a fuge having a restriction because you don't want as much water going through, but the mian sump drain shouldn't be restricted. If there's too much water going into the tank from the return, tee off your return and put a valve on the tee to restrict how much water goes into the tank, but not your returns. As I said unsure what you mean by "correct amount" but if you're trying to match your drains to your pump you're in for a major headache down the road.
Two philosophies of mine involving drains. 1) Over side for the job, don't match to your pump, be able to handle 2 or 3 of those pumps worth of water (usually that involves 1.5" piping). 2) Have a backup that's not used at all, if it's not used it can't get clogged, you simply have it a tad higher than your main drain pipe so if that does get clogged the backup can kick in as the water level rises.
Again not trying to give you crap here Roc, just since Mark is hooking his up a little advice to throw his way (unfortunately via you). What I would have done with your setup, obviously larger drain pipe, unless of course your return pump is tiny, is to tee off that return, one to the sump one to the refugium, with a ball on the refuge side only.
[/quote]
Having one drain restricted is the whole point of the flooded drain design. The idea is that the drain which is restricted runs at full siphon, taking the vast majority of the flow. Because its lower in the overflow box and running at full siphon, it draws no air so it's completely quiet. It needs the valve in order to prevent it draining too quickly and sucking in air.
The second drain, which Roc has running to the fuge, should always be wide open. It's capable of taking the full flow if there's clog in the first drain, but normally there's very little flow in it so it's also very quiet.
A standpipe reduces the flow of a drain as well, and it too can clog. I would question the inclusion of the second valve (on the higher up drain which runs at low flow) but as long as it's kept wide open when the pump is on, it seems fine.
The fact you have two drains it's not too much of an issue, but all you need is a little something clogging one drain (or worse both) then your "correct amount" becomes too small, and depending upon your setup that could cause an overflow. I've seen it many MANY times with people restricting drains because it was too loud, rather than doing a proper standpipe.
Why does the main drain have any restriction at all though? I can understand a fuge having a restriction because you don't want as much water going through, but the mian sump drain shouldn't be restricted. If there's too much water going into the tank from the return, tee off your return and put a valve on the tee to restrict how much water goes into the tank, but not your returns. As I said unsure what you mean by "correct amount" but if you're trying to match your drains to your pump you're in for a major headache down the road.
Two philosophies of mine involving drains. 1) Over side for the job, don't match to your pump, be able to handle 2 or 3 of those pumps worth of water (usually that involves 1.5" piping). 2) Have a backup that's not used at all, if it's not used it can't get clogged, you simply have it a tad higher than your main drain pipe so if that does get clogged the backup can kick in as the water level rises.
Again not trying to give you crap here Roc, just since Mark is hooking his up a little advice to throw his way (unfortunately via you
). What I would have done with your setup, obviously larger drain pipe, unless of course your return pump is tiny, is to tee off that return, one to the sump one to the refugium, with a ball on the refuge side only.[/quote]
Having one drain restricted is the whole point of the flooded drain design. The idea is that the drain which is restricted runs at full siphon, taking the vast majority of the flow. Because its lower in the overflow box and running at full siphon, it draws no air so it's completely quiet. It needs the valve in order to prevent it draining too quickly and sucking in air.
The second drain, which Roc has running to the fuge, should always be wide open. It's capable of taking the full flow if there's clog in the first drain, but normally there's very little flow in it so it's also very quiet.
A standpipe reduces the flow of a drain as well, and it too can clog. I would question the inclusion of the second valve (on the higher up drain which runs at low flow) but as long as it's kept wide open when the pump is on, it seems fine.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
No I dig the whole restricting one drain, but having two ball valves, that seems like it can restrict more than a single drain, even if it is 95% open.
pixelpixi
Guest
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=3677.msg51534#msg51534 date=1218224819]
No I dig the whole restricting one drain, but having two ball valves, that seems like it can restrict more than a single drain, even if it is 95% open.
[/quote]
Oh, yeah, point taken. I can't think of a case where the second ball valve would be useful... even when the pump is shut off. Roc? Are there any times when you use it?
No I dig the whole restricting one drain, but having two ball valves, that seems like it can restrict more than a single drain, even if it is 95% open.
[/quote]
Oh, yeah, point taken. I can't think of a case where the second ball valve would be useful... even when the pump is shut off. Roc? Are there any times when you use it?
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Well the reason I originally pointed out is because I can often be quite the absentminded professor and I could imagine me closing it for some reason then forgetting that I closed it.